Are Contractors rates having to go up.

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
What a load of rubbish. So someone that does a job for you should be cheaper because you don't earn enough? Then why is fertiliser through the roof, surely the customers can't afford it?
If you are a contractor and you are waiting for the farmers to come to you to tell you are allowed to increase prices because he is finally getting a "fair price" (whatever that is), you are an idiot and deserve to go bust.
Know your costs, charge accordingly.

Also, if you are paying for the use of comma's, I've got a great idea to save some money.
we are not contractors, we are farmers, that use contractors, there is a difference.
Why should we expect contractors to do work, for us, with a low profit margin. They do, because there are to many, chasing business, they tender, we choose, job done.
Where you seem to have a mental blockage, it is accepted, throughout the western world, food is to cheap, which causes ever shrinking margins for farmers who are at the bottom of the food chain and price takers not setters which l suspect is common to the majority of farmers contractors are the next step up from us so if our profits are slim the money is simply not there to afford contractors contractors seek out business and quote accordingly but they also need money my opinion is they should do no work that doesn't make a margin but if they quote a price that is their prerogative
Not all farmers are wealthy and many only just about get by with ever increasing input costs they are bound to struggle so leaving contractors working in a diminishing pool of work
l have no idea of your business you give an impression of arrogance you may have a massive set up but you do not seem to understand the point farmers take prices not set them the very simple point which seemed to go over your head not sure why because it is very very simple is the price we receive is not a reflection on what it should be if it were higher we would be able to pay a higher rate such is life
so your post was pretty stupid and insulting to many smaller hard working farmers who definitely do not deserve to go bust and l certainly do not intend too l run a profitable forward thinking business it would seem you only run in the present thankfully that's your business not mine so don't quote what you don't know it just makes you look stupid
The answer, like comma's, is quite simple, we need more.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
I was just asking the forum in general. I don't know the going rates for contracting for anything as I am way out of date since I ever got involved even in a conversation about them. The cost of a tractor and even a topper today, with the associated price rises in diesel and the like made me wonder how much you would need to be charging/earning per day to make ownership a realistic proposition?

I know truckers talk about having to earn so much a day but even that I would be out of date on. A modern tractor unit must be 120K plus? £500 a day, would it be enough?
I know there is more than one way to skin a cat, but IMO to justify a brand new tractor purely for contracting you need to be doing 2000 hours/year of profitable work. Profitable work i would call anything that pays more than all costs plus 20%

Very simplified, and obviously depends on tax situation, and a huge number of other factors too though.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
we are not contractors, we are farmers, that use contractors, there is a difference.
Why should we expect contractors to do work, for us, with a low profit margin. They do, because there are to many, chasing business, they tender, we choose, job done.
Where you seem to have a mental blockage, it is accepted, throughout the western world, food is to cheap, which causes ever shrinking margins for farmers who are at the bottom of the food chain and price takers not setters which l suspect is common to the majority of farmers contractors are the next step up from us so if our profits are slim the money is simply not there to afford contractors contractors seek out business and quote accordingly but they also need money my opinion is they should do no work that doesn't make a margin but if they quote a price that is their prerogative
Not all farmers are wealthy and many only just about get by with ever increasing input costs they are bound to struggle so leaving contractors working in a diminishing pool of work
l have no idea of your business you give an impression of arrogance you may have a massive set up but you do not seem to understand the point farmers take prices not set them the very simple point which seemed to go over your head not sure why because it is very very simple is the price we receive is not a reflection on what it should be if it were higher we would be able to pay a higher rate such is life
so your post was pretty stupid and insulting to many smaller hard working farmers who definitely do not deserve to go bust and l certainly do not intend too l run a profitable forward thinking business it would seem you only run in the present thankfully that's your business not mine so don't quote what you don't know it just makes you look stupid
The answer, like comma's, is quite simple, we need more.
Yes it is an extremely fine balancing act, with as mentioned above loyalty required for long term viability, at least,for a good job done and paid for.

Whereas like the dump trailler work also mentioned above , when its for a builder / developer it's an entirely different matter, as people seem to chuck money at them and plumbers etc without a care about cost at all.as .ong as they have their new house/ extension/ kitchen etc.
 

Gerbert

Member
Location
Dutch biblebelt
we are not contractors, we are farmers, that use contractors, there is a difference.
Why should we expect contractors to do work, for us, with a low profit margin. They do, because there are to many, chasing business, they tender, we choose, job done.
Where you seem to have a mental blockage, it is accepted, throughout the western world, food is to cheap, which causes ever shrinking margins for farmers who are at the bottom of the food chain and price takers not setters which l suspect is common to the majority of farmers contractors are the next step up from us so if our profits are slim the money is simply not there to afford contractors contractors seek out business and quote accordingly but they also need money my opinion is they should do no work that doesn't make a margin but if they quote a price that is their prerogative
Not all farmers are wealthy and many only just about get by with ever increasing input costs they are bound to struggle so leaving contractors working in a diminishing pool of work
l have no idea of your business you give an impression of arrogance you may have a massive set up but you do not seem to understand the point farmers take prices not set them the very simple point which seemed to go over your head not sure why because it is very very simple is the price we receive is not a reflection on what it should be if it were higher we would be able to pay a higher rate such is life
so your post was pretty stupid and insulting to many smaller hard working farmers who definitely do not deserve to go bust and l certainly do not intend too l run a profitable forward thinking business it would seem you only run in the present thankfully that's your business not mine so don't quote what you don't know it just makes you look stupid
The answer, like comma's, is quite simple, we need more.

Well there is the mental blockage I think, I wasn't talking about farmers, it was about contractors. I am a small time farmer and even smaller contractor if you want to know.
And contractors are much like comma's, we need the optimal amount.

Let me clarify, because I indeed may have worded it badly. This is my point: contractors should not look at what a farmer can afford, him being potentially underpaid is non of his concern in pricing a job.
Like above someone said, if farmers would get a 100 percent increase in prices overnight would there be anyone of them calling their contractor to ask for a price increase?

And farmers should adapt if the prices they receive are unsustainable. I am not saying in any way that it's easy, but neither is trying to survive on consistent red numbers under the bottom line.

I wasn't trying to be insulting, but you sure are.
 

Eden.Agri.AD

Member
Mixed Farmer
The contracting game is a very fine balancing act,
I could go at the silage game next season and set my stall at £100 acre but the fleet would probably be parked in the shed as some buckaroo would just come in at £40 an acre.
So you have to weigh up pricing accordantly to the market that you are faced with, Price yourself too cheap and you will go bang but price yourself out of the market and you will also go bang, it's finding that middle ground that works for everybody that is the problem.

You never compete with the idiot at £40 but realistically offering a good service to loyal customers only really entitles you to a max 50% mark up i.e. £60 per acre or your customers will start looking else where. The real moral of the story is don't buy a silage harvester kids ;)
 
surely theres more to it than that for £895? or should i be rushing down to the iveco dealership? 😂
We only run under 3500 kgs at present even though my daughter does have her operators CPC.
We maybe get just half a dozen hgv jobs a month of varying sizes so make more sense to use a subby for them. Central London needs FORS and Euro 6 compatible vehicles - And we had 3 quotes which were higher !!
 
Last edited:

Wellytrack

Member
The contracting game is a very fine balancing act,
I could go at the silage game next season and set my stall at £100 acre but the fleet would probably be parked in the shed as some buckaroo would just come in at £40 an acre.
So you have to weigh up pricing accordantly to the market that you are faced with, Price yourself too cheap and you will go bang but price yourself out of the market and you will also go bang, it's finding that middle ground that works for everybody that is the problem.

You never compete with the idiot at £40 but realistically offering a good service to loyal customers only really entitles you to a max 50% mark up i.e. £60 per acre or your customers will start looking else where. The real moral of the story is don't buy a silage harvester kids ;)

Quite a few on multi cut system will be at or very close to that lower number you mention.
 

Eden.Agri.AD

Member
Mixed Farmer
Quite a few on multi cut system will be at or very close to that lower number you mention.
I do like the multi cut system but it's a bit of a mystery at times too,

Say you cut 200 acres each cut for a farmer (Very general figures)-

200acres * 3 cuts * £60 per acre = £36,000
200acres* 5 cuts * £35 per acre = £35,000

Turnover wise there isn't much in it and you should have still saved some time and diesel but IMO the wear and tare is increased over 40% extra acres and you generally have the manpower and extra equipment sitting there for the bigger crops anyway.

And then the 1st cut men in the middle of July want the £36 per acre price!
 

Wellytrack

Member
I do like the multi cut system but it's a bit of a mystery at times too,

Say you cut 200 acres each cut for a farmer (Very general figures)-

200acres * 3 cuts * £60 per acre = £36,000
200acres* 5 cuts * £35 per acre = £35,000

Turnover wise there isn't much in it and you should have still saved some time and diesel but IMO the wear and tare is increased over 40% extra acres and you generally have the manpower and extra equipment sitting there for the bigger crops anyway.

And then the 1st cut men in the middle of July want the £36 per acre price!

I think some crews must base it on output per hour and divide back. Acres must be covered, and roads have to be traveled though.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
Does it not drive them nuts dropping the shovel? usually the buckrake man only wants to drive the buckrake and throws the toys out of the pram if asked to do anything else at the grass
This year was the first we've done it and didn't hear anything like that, I'm not sure what the buckrake man did instead, would think most people would be glad of a day off mid silage season lol

They might have a bit more flexibility with me as they know I'm doing it to improve silage quality and not as a cost cutting exercise, I don't think it actually saves me any money
 
I do like the multi cut system but it's a bit of a mystery at times too,

Say you cut 200 acres each cut for a farmer (Very general figures)-

200acres * 3 cuts * £60 per acre = £36,000
200acres* 5 cuts * £35 per acre = £35,000

Turnover wise there isn't much in it and you should have still saved some time and diesel but IMO the wear and tare is increased over 40% extra acres and you generally have the manpower and extra equipment sitting there for the bigger crops anyway.

And then the 1st cut men in the middle of July want the £36 per acre price!

66% more travelling time for £1000 less money.
 

cvx175

Member
Location
cumbria
I know there is more than one way to skin a cat, but IMO to justify a brand new tractor purely for contracting you need to be doing 2000 hours/year of profitable work. Profitable work i would call anything that pays more than all costs plus 20%

Very simplified, and obviously depends on tax situation, and a huge number of other factors too though.
Why would you need to be doing 2000hrs a year to buy a new tractor if its profitable work by your definition of covering all costs plus 20%? If all its work is profitable then it doesn't make any difference how many hours it does.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
Why would you need to be doing 2000hrs a year to buy a new tractor if its profitable work by your definition of covering all costs plus 20%? If all its work is profitable then it doesn't make any difference how many hours it does.
Sorry that was badly worded. I meant that you need to do 2000hrs to justify a new tractor Vs a 2nd hand one
 

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HSENI names new farm safety champions

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

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The Health and Safety Executive for Northern Ireland (HSENI) alongside the Farm Safety Partnership (FSP), has named new farm safety champions and commended the outstanding work on farm safety that has been carried out in the farming community in the last 20 years.

Two of these champions are Malcom Downey, retired principal inspector for the Agri/Food team in HSENI and Harry Sinclair, current chair of the Farm Safety Partnership and former president of the Ulster Farmers’ Union (UFU).

Improving farm safety is the key aim of HSENI’s and the FSP’s work and...
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