Are Contractors rates having to go up.

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Yes its a carry on i agree. You hear stories of land being rented free by the contractor to settle these long standing debts or farmers sons having to drive kit for free to work it off. Not sure how true it is but i suppose its one way of being paid.
we supply a tractor and driver to ours, we get great service !
 

Derrick Hughes

Member
Location
Ceredigion
A 4wd zetor Crystal everyone took the pee
I always wanted one of those they looked amazing , but bought a Ford 5000 instead

We slogged on for years doing the silage ourselves , tack was costing a fortune by the end , had a New TW 15 trailers mowers the lot , then a local contractor turned up at the door one morningand left a price list on the table , have a look at that see what you think he said , was £22 acre to do the lot with a Class Self Propelled, that was the last year we did it ourselves
 
Last edited:

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
we had a succession of zetors, 20/30 yrs ago, great as 'stockman tractors' they took a fair pasting. The last one was a crystal, added air con, baled thousands of round bale hay and straw, with it. Cultivation wise, they were not the best. Biggest downside, changing them out for something better, big price difference ! Know a few with newer ones, l think they have improved a lot.
 

Farma Parma

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Northumberlandia
Contractors rates have never really been enuff & yes they will have too go up
What a lot of folks dont consider is the true contractor isnt a farmer & doesnt pick up any SUB on his work like the farmer does.
All farmers who go out contracting have a huge advantage to the man who doesnt have a Farm
NAAC rates aint where they should be neither.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
My neighbour spent a fair while trying to get his ploughing something like , with their Crystal, but as much as they tried altering this and that, they sort of gave up till someone dropped the tape measure on the lift arms and one was a lot shorter than the other.
Oh those Chechs😁
our first 4 wheel drive tractor was a zetor, fantastic, we thought, hitched a plough up, dropped it in, pulled it no trouble at all, till we went to lift it out, arms came up, plough didn't, the arms had only been spot welded, a good laugh, and a few red faces !
 

Mounty

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
No doubt that rates will have to go up across the board. I don't think we've seen the fall out from haulage/diesel/wages from a lot of hauliers yet either. Price hikes have started but definitely more to come. We've added pence to our prices for a few years, sometimes nothing at all but with costs increasing we have to pass something on, but thats just to stand still. Never had an SFP to top things up in a good year let alone a difficult one.

I try not to think about it too much but without some of the spreading contractors we have there would be hundreds of farms without a service available. It's a much, much thinner line than many are aware of. One outfit is a father and son with one other driver. They probably spread 10 or 15,000 tonnes in a short period over harvest. They really need a large increase and probably a load of people to reject it so they have less work but similar money as the stress of getting everything done doesn't really justify the hassle, even at double the price they charge.

A lime quarry I know has 3 people working in it but just about breaking even. 1 of them has just left for a similar role in a non ag position but £10k a year more and a van. He told one of the others and he joined him. So now 1 left in the quarry which now cannot function and he's thinking about going too. Apart from the problem of finding 3 new members of staff, the experience and knowledge they had accumulated has now gone. In the past, you paid peanuts and got monkeys. Now you probably have to pay a fortune but could still get monkeys. Very difficult times ahead.
 

Chae1

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
No doubt that rates will have to go up across the board. I don't think we've seen the fall out from haulage/diesel/wages from a lot of hauliers yet either. Price hikes have started but definitely more to come. We've added pence to our prices for a few years, sometimes nothing at all but with costs increasing we have to pass something on, but thats just to stand still. Never had an SFP to top things up in a good year let alone a difficult one.

I try not to think about it too much but without some of the spreading contractors we have there would be hundreds of farms without a service available. It's a much, much thinner line than many are aware of. One outfit is a father and son with one other driver. They probably spread 10 or 15,000 tonnes in a short period over harvest. They really need a large increase and probably a load of people to reject it so they have less work but similar money as the stress of getting everything done doesn't really justify the hassle, even at double the price they charge.

A lime quarry I know has 3 people working in it but just about breaking even. 1 of them has just left for a similar role in a non ag position but £10k a year more and a van. He told one of the others and he joined him. So now 1 left in the quarry which now cannot function and he's thinking about going too. Apart from the problem of finding 3 new members of staff, the experience and knowledge they had accumulated has now gone. In the past, you paid peanuts and got monkeys. Now you probably have to pay a fortune but could still get monkeys. Very difficult times ahead.
Will quarries in England need to run plant on white diesel next year?

This is another cost that will have to be passed onto end user.
 

Werzle

Member
Location
Midlands
I thought they would be able to claim the fuel duty back like vat, so no real added cost apart from the first period between buying it and claiming back.
 

Martin Holden

Member
Trade
Location
Cheltenham
That’s just daft to be blunt.

We are right on top of paperwork and invoices here. We invoice every week and are chasing up bang on 28 days if there has been cause for concern in the past. I’m prepared to give a bit of leaway for previously prompt payers and will always talk if I’m asked if I can wait for payment before we do the job. There is absolutely no way I’m working for anybody who takes too long to pay up.

It winds me up if someone asks for a discount and even more if they ask after the job has been done. Somebody sent me a cheque once with the few pounds and pence knocked (£44.12p if I recall correctly) off and then argued about it when I called to request they paid in full. I still work for them and they’ve never done it again even though I know they do it to others. I don’t ask my hauliers or my suppliers to accept less so why should I?


For a contractor to allow himself to be used as a bank is beyond my comprehension. To allow himself to have the pi$$ taken for several years is just nonsense and shows they hold themselves in low esteem.
Quite right. Banks are for borrowing money not outside contractors
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
pretty well the whole ag industry is run on a shoestring, completely controlled by what the big super/mkts are prepared to pay, even for what they don't buy, their price sets the whole. Those that run the s/mkts, are extremely good business men, they don't give a ###### about anything other than their profit, they are completely ruthless.
All my farming life, it's been, not paid enough, but product is still produced. If the boot was on the other foot, and your suppliers kept moaning we need more money, but you can still buy all you need, without a price increase, what would you do ? It is only when short, does the price increase.
There used to be butter mountains, wine lakes, etc, 1,000,000's of tons of all ag produce, all held in intervention, set aside, quotas all came in to reduce the surplus. Well that surplus has gone, intervention is still there, for emergencies, but no longer is a surplus produced. Our milk prices are pretty near set, by the fronterra auctions, which trade just 5% of global dairy supplies, and all we get are accusations of destroying the planet, and given mega amounts in subsidies.
Contracting as a profession, must be hard, just as with farmers, imput prices are on a speedy upward surge, but what we sell, is not. You only have to go to an agshow, and see the mass of equipment, assistance, building, and drug companies present, start looking at them as parasites, because, they all rely on us, for their living, without us, the dole !
Much of the above, has been supported, by the 'just in time' system, that, l suspect, is nearly defunct. But it is important to realise the effect that will have, it will mean virtually every business will have to hold more stock, an expense that was removed. Who will pay for that stock ? You can be certain everyone will try and pass it down the line, in food, that's us. I am not sure that our industry can withstand higher imput costs, without rising prices, the trouble is, we are the bottom of the chain, and we will be targeted so all above us in that chain, try and pass those extra costs down, to us.
To be very fair, contractors are great, and we cannot do without them, but they are in the same dilemma as us, if we have reduced income, it cannot go out, and they to, are close to the bottom of that chain.
I hope this massive shock of brexit, covid and energy prices, along with the supply line issues, may finally make the penny drop. Because with prices of 85p for red diesel, and £650 a tonne for N, along with other prices, production has to take a hit, there is very little left in the pot, for many farmers, and alas, contractors.
 

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
pretty well the whole ag industry is run on a shoestring, completely controlled by what the big super/mkts are prepared to pay, even for what they don't buy, their price sets the whole. Those that run the s/mkts, are extremely good business men, they don't give a ###### about anything other than their profit, they are completely ruthless.
All my farming life, it's been, not paid enough, but product is still produced. If the boot was on the other foot, and your suppliers kept moaning we need more money, but you can still buy all you need, without a price increase, what would you do ? It is only when short, does the price increase.
There used to be butter mountains, wine lakes, etc, 1,000,000's of tons of all ag produce, all held in intervention, set aside, quotas all came in to reduce the surplus. Well that surplus has gone, intervention is still there, for emergencies, but no longer is a surplus produced. Our milk prices are pretty near set, by the fronterra auctions, which trade just 5% of global dairy supplies, and all we get are accusations of destroying the planet, and given mega amounts in subsidies.
Contracting as a profession, must be hard, just as with farmers, imput prices are on a speedy upward surge, but what we sell, is not. You only have to go to an agshow, and see the mass of equipment, assistance, building, and drug companies present, start looking at them as parasites, because, they all rely on us, for their living, without us, the dole !
Much of the above, has been supported, by the 'just in time' system, that, l suspect, is nearly defunct. But it is important to realise the effect that will have, it will mean virtually every business will have to hold more stock, an expense that was removed. Who will pay for that stock ? You can be certain everyone will try and pass it down the line, in food, that's us. I am not sure that our industry can withstand higher imput costs, without rising prices, the trouble is, we are the bottom of the chain, and we will be targeted so all above us in that chain, try and pass those extra costs down, to us.
To be very fair, contractors are great, and we cannot do without them, but they are in the same dilemma as us, if we have reduced income, it cannot go out, and they to, are close to the bottom of that chain.
I hope this massive shock of brexit, covid and energy prices, along with the supply line issues, may finally make the penny drop. Because with prices of 85p for red diesel, and £650 a tonne for N, along with other prices, production has to take a hit, there is very little left in the pot, for many farmers, and alas, contractors.
Well said.
 

Chae1

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Works both ways abit, some contractors will not bill good paying customers for X amount of years and then when they make a big purchase they will ask for the money and buy the machine. They would of paid tax if they had saved the money in there own account
The money will still appear in there accounts as income? Would they not still be taxed on it?
 

balerman

Member
Location
N Devon
Works both ways abit, some contractors will not bill good paying customers for X amount of years and then when they make a big purchase they will ask for the money and buy the machine. They would of paid tax if they had saved the money in there own account
That’s not a good business model.Buying big machines will keep the tax bill down if accounted for properly,that way you wouldn’t have a clue where you are.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.1%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 67 35.3%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,294
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top