Are Contractors rates having to go up.

[Wellytrack]

as l see it, we are all running faster, on that hamster wheel, but getting less profit, for doing it.
UK farming, as in some other countries, has become a highly mechanised industry, and efficient.
Compared to many other countries, the opposite is the reality. To many farmers here, the SFP, is a must, many in the eastern parts of the EU, it is just a huge windfall, but they are classed as 'backward' farmers, still using horses as well, old /smaller kit etc.
Whose to say which way is the best living, l rather think it's them, the pressures on farmers here, is heavy, on them ?
We have been encouraged, bribed, or ordered, to produce large quantities of cheap food, the more produced, the lower the return, to actually achieve better prices, output must fall, not increased, to, 'spread the cost', unfortunately, to the guvs relief, that policy goes right against our natural instincts, however, the price of fert, and other imputs, might actually achieve that.

More modern machines have enabled more work to be done. Truth is most farmers will think they are better by selling an extra 400k litres of milk from an extra 50 cows on the same home farm - but take on another 40 acres of land. That land could be in 3 blocks spread over 10 miles. The ambition will rarely stop there.

300 cow farms are the new 100 cow farms of the late 90’s.
If you have the good fortune to have a 400 acre farm for those 300 plus followers that’s great.
Such is the dog eat dog fervour for land those numbers will be on 200 or less with grass and maize drew in, poo and poop drew out.

Back in my dads day a local piggery had a Nuffield 1060 and a Yellow Fleming 550 tanker, the driver clothed in a ‘Great Coat’ carting $hit every single day. It never stopped. The piggery however did and is long but a distance memory and before my time.

They piggery that replaced it is now 10 times it’s size and a contractor now takes care of the waste between the NVZ periods of February to October. It’s run better and cleaner now than it ever was, such is progress and it would be impossible without investment, at this level it’s often unwise for a farm to buy into wearing tackle like that.

 

[Sid]

we supply a driver and tractor to our small contractor, when needed, what it actually means, our contracting bills are vastly reduced. But it goes so much further than that, our multi cut silage, is so much cheaper, he can pop down and do 20/30 acres, no problem, often just him, and pit man, we run his trailers, we get ours done, at the best time, because he relies on us, to help him out. The system works well, for us, but of course not everybody can do it !!!!

By supplying a tractor and driver your only putting off the price until you , fill up with diesel, replace the tractor, replace the tyres and realise you should have been rolling the pit instead.


Have done some contra work on silage before.
Them thinking a 160hp tractor with a 16 t trailer is same value as a 90hp with a 9 t trailer is embarrassing!

 

[som farmer]

By supplying a tractor and driver your only putting off the price until you , fill up with diesel, replace the tractor, replace the tyres and realise you should have been rolling the pit instead.


Have done some contra work on silage before.
Them thinking a 160hp tractor with a 16 t trailer is same value as a 90hp with a 9 t trailer is embarrassing!

like l said, it's not for everyone, our 160hp tractor pulls their biggest trailer, no problem, but, it's a small outfit, a few farms, and growing crops for a digestor. For us, we get grass cut at 'best stage', to make high value silage, only problem with that, l hate sheeting down, and unsheeting, to many times, for us, the ability to multi cut cheaply, is great, we don't have to wait for our 'turn', nor cut the whole lot, in one go. How much value do place on that ?

 

[JeepJeep]

Prices for loads of things should without a doubt go up. Haulage Contracting Labour etc etc etc.

Problem is the bottom feeders will always burn Diesel or break a sweat for less than the man above on a higher price.

 

[puntabrava]

. Glad to hear you lasted longer than the spreaders!!
Or maybe you still have them?

No, they worked several spreader lifetimes back then as even the contractor that rang me was running rotaspreaders. These were in the days before the likes of Bunning, Richard Western and a few others had started to copy Samson’s design.

 

[ARW]

we supply a driver and tractor to our small contractor, when needed, what it actually means, our contracting bills are vastly reduced. But it goes so much further than that, our multi cut silage, is so much cheaper, he can pop down and do 20/30 acres, no problem, often just him, and pit man, we run his trailers, we get ours done, at the best time, because he relies on us, to help him out. The system works well, for us, but of course not everybody can do it !!!!

His invoice may be less but you still have the man to pay and the tractor to run, if you worked out that cost it’s probably not a huge saving

 

[som farmer]

His invoice may be less but you still have the man to pay and the tractor to run, if you worked out that cost it’s probably not a huge saving

labour wise, quite good, we need help during the winter, summer time, not so much, so that helps, he still has to be paid. Tractor wise, it would be sat, not doing a lot, diesel cost yes.
Our neighbour, bid on a new parlour, 2 yrs old. It had been installed for son, who duly decided he didn't want to work w/ends.
So, out with the dairy, in with the beef, and corn. The beef, still has to be fed etc w/ends, and don't make much profit, so they will go, which leaves arable, there are insufficient acres, to warrant the machinery needed, so it will end up with contractors,.
2 outfits already eyeing it up, and presumably there will be others, all competing for business, which isn't yet available, and each will try to undercut the others, just to get 'the business', to 'spread their costs', so no-one is going to make a lot out of that farm, certainly a lot less, than the highly efficient, and profitable dairy, which went.
As for the son, not wanting to work w/ends, he wont have much work, all week, when it's contracted out.

 

[Farma Parma]

as l see it, we are all running faster, on that hamster wheel, but getting less profit, for doing it.
UK farming, as in some other countries, has become a highly mechanised industry, and efficient.
Compared to many other countries, the opposite is the reality. To many farmers here, the SFP, is a must, many in the eastern parts of the EU, it is just a huge windfall, but they are classed as 'backward' farmers, still using horses as well, old /smaller kit etc.
Whose to say which way is the best living, l rather think it's them, the pressures on farmers here, is heavy, on them ?
We have been encouraged, bribed, or ordered, to produce large quantities of cheap food, the more produced, the lower the return, to actually achieve better prices, output must fall, not increased, to, 'spread the cost', unfortunately, to the guvs relief, that policy goes right against our natural instincts, however, the price of fert, and other imputs, might actually achieve that.

Late Father often said with every new so called game changer in farming mechanization that were taking 19steps backwards but only 18 forwards
starting to feel the old bugger was right.

 

[Mounty]

Most of these situations in contracting are down to the huge increase in machinery costs. I'm aware of R C Baker but know nothing about them. I have worked in the same field as one of their Vredo's applying digestate and having priced one up a week before had some idea of the amount of work required to pay for one let alone make a profit too. When you do your sums, a busy machine (which won't be out every day by any means), probably struggles to keep up with the depreciation before you factor in anything else and at that point, for me, it definitely doesn't stack.

From a lime spreading point of view, in 2004 a 10 tonne KRM Bredal with a stainless steel hopper could be bought for £26k. The same machine today with a painted finish (not stainless steel) is near to £80k. The tractor that pulls it is twice the cost it was in 2004 and a bit more if you want a bigger machine. Not to mention a loader, fuel and labour. The price per tonne for spreading has increased by around £1.00/tonne in that time, but the new outfit has no more throughput or capacity than the machine from 2004.

I have a spreading contractor who works more or less solely for us but does a few other jobs during our quieter periods. He's suggested he can't continue for financial reasons. I've been looking into replacing him with my own rig. If I buy new, I'm looking at a figure of well over £200k to get fully set up, plus a man and diesel. Can't do much else with the man when it's too wet or windy so a lot of down days during a year. He can't take a van with him due to VOSA legislation so needs to travel home on the tractor too. Write the kit off over 4 years, mans wages, fuel, tyres, insurance, general hassle when things go wrong etc etc and an income of around £100k per annum. It's probably a little over break even. Why would I bother? The only reason is because that area we cover is stuffed without him. So either I stay on the merry go round or jump off. A significant price increase is the only other option.

 

[B'o'B]

labour wise, quite good, we need help during the winter, summer time, not so much, so that helps, he still has to be paid. Tractor wise, it would be sat, not doing a lot, diesel cost yes.
Our neighbour, bid on a new parlour, 2 yrs old. It had been installed for son, who duly decided he didn't want to work w/ends.
So, out with the dairy, in with the beef, and corn. The beef, still has to be fed etc w/ends, and don't make much profit, so they will go, which leaves arable, there are insufficient acres, to warrant the machinery needed, so it will end up with contractors,.
2 outfits already eyeing it up, and presumably there will be others, all competing for business, which isn't yet available, and each will try to undercut the others, just to get 'the business', to 'spread their costs', so no-one is going to make a lot out of that farm, certainly a lot less, than the highly efficient, and profitable dairy, which went.
As for the son, not wanting to work w/ends, he wont have much work, all week, when it's contracted out.

A new tractor dealership has been set up near us. When the rep came calling it didn’t take very long in the conversation before he asked something along the lines of “Do you still do the field operations yourselves?”
It seem farmers actually doing much farming themselves might be becoming a bit of a rare breed!

 

[Farma Parma]

Most of these situations in contracting are down to the huge increase in machinery costs. I'm aware of R C Baker but know nothing about them. I have worked in the same field as one of their Vredo's applying digestate and having priced one up a week before had some idea of the amount of work required to pay for one let alone make a profit too. When you do your sums, a busy machine (which won't be out every day by any means), probably struggles to keep up with the depreciation before you factor in anything else and at that point, for me, it definitely doesn't stack.

From a lime spreading point of view, in 2004 a 10 tonne KRM Bredal with a stainless steel hopper could be bought for £26k. The same machine today with a painted finish (not stainless steel) is near to £80k. The tractor that pulls it is twice the cost it was in 2004 and a bit more if you want a bigger machine. Not to mention a loader, fuel and labour. The price per tonne for spreading has increased by around £1.00/tonne in that time, but the new outfit has no more throughput or capacity than the machine from 2004.

I have a spreading contractor who works more or less solely for us but does a few other jobs during our quieter periods. He's suggested he can't continue for financial reasons. I've been looking into replacing him with my own rig. If I buy new, I'm looking at a figure of well over £200k to get fully set up, plus a man and diesel. Can't do much else with the man when it's too wet or windy so a lot of down days during a year. He can't take a van with him due to VOSA legislation so needs to travel home on the tractor too. Write the kit off over 4 years, mans wages, fuel, tyres, insurance, general hassle when things go wrong etc etc and an income of around £100k per annum. It's probably a little over break even. Why would I bother? The only reason is because that area we cover is stuffed without him. So either I stay on the merry go round or jump off. A significant price increase is the only other option.

Thats been a well schooled bit of time to figure that all out & yet they still there is lots of money in agri contracting

 

[Ali_Maxxum]

What other industry is there where the tools you need have doubled if not trebled in price but the returns you get are the same or only very slightly increased in say 20-25yrs.

What also gets me is how no more money was made then compared to now. Or was not as much work physically being done because the machines weren't as massive?

It is concerning when a big firm gives up, mind you I wouldn't want it, how some of them sleep I do not know. It's bad enough being a 2 man band some times.

Really not sure where the job is headed to be honest; all these schemes to let stuff go wild, issues with muck and slurry, farmers getting out of dairy, giving up land to solar, immense difficulties with sourcing labour, for ever and ever increasing cost of kit, etc, etc....

I've been saying since I left college that agriculture needs a massive rocket up it's arse, not sure what it will take or if it will ever happen.

 

[Chae1]

In my opinion many contractors are simply subsidising farmers businesses by doing jobs below what it actually costs.

Clever farmers have contractors tied in doing most of work. They just lift the phone.

I'm not a clever farmer.

 

[Daniel]

As for the son, not wanting to work w/ends, he wont have much work, all week, when it's contracted out.

Having spent a good chunk of the day in a chicken shed, I can’t help but think the son might have a point.

 

[CPF]

labour wise, quite good, we need help during the winter, summer time, not so much, so that helps, he still has to be paid. Tractor wise, it would be sat, not doing a lot, diesel cost yes.
Our neighbour, bid on a new parlour, 2 yrs old. It had been installed for son, who duly decided he didn't want to work w/ends.
So, out with the dairy, in with the beef, and corn. The beef, still has to be fed etc w/ends, and don't make much profit, so they will go, which leaves arable, there are insufficient acres, to warrant the machinery needed, so it will end up with contractors,.
2 outfits already eyeing it up, and presumably there will be others, all competing for business, which isn't yet available, and each will try to undercut the others, just to get 'the business', to 'spread their costs', so no-one is going to make a lot out of that farm, certainly a lot less, than the highly efficient, and profitable dairy, which went.
As for the son, not wanting to work w/ends, he wont have much work, all week, when it's contracted out.

 

[CPF]

Where did I put my will?
( Message for notes to ring Solicitor in the morning to cut son out of Will)

 

[Devil's advocate]

What other industry is there where the tools you need have doubled if not trebled in price but the returns you get are the same or only very slightly increased in say 20-25yrs.

What also gets me is how no more money was made then compared to now. Or was not as much work physically being done because the machines weren't as massive?

It is concerning when a big firm gives up, mind you I wouldn't want it, how some of them sleep I do not know. It's bad enough being a 2 man band some times.

Really not sure where the job is headed to be honest; all these schemes to let stuff go wild, issues with muck and slurry, farmers getting out of dairy, giving up land to solar, immense difficulties with sourcing labour, for ever and ever increasing cost of kit, etc, etc....

I've been saying since I left college that agriculture needs a massive rocket up it's arse, not sure what it will take or if it will ever happen.

How big a rocket do you want.

Farming is changing faster than any time in history. Fertiliser, feed & fuel prices will guarantee that, not forgetting labour, packaging etc.

 

[Bury the Trash]

‘You should be doing contracting for the love of it and not for the money’

The Cork ag contractor offers reseeding, mowing, raking, baling, wrapping, bale stacking, slurry spreading and plant hire services.

thatsfarming.com

 

[CPF]

‘You should be doing contracting for the love of it and not for the money’

The Cork ag contractor offers reseeding, mowing, raking, baling, wrapping, bale stacking, slurry spreading and plant hire services.

thatsfarming.com

If you keep strolling down there’s a good video on the new Ford Ranger 2022 model I didn’t know if you seen it or if anyone else seen it .It looks very smart got a feeling I might like one.

 

[Bury the Trash]

If you keep strolling down there’s a good video on the new Ford Ranger 2022 model I didn’t know if you seen it or if anyone else seen it .It looks very smart got a feeling I might like one.

no i wouldnt have one as the frunt grill is ugly and i dont like the looks of the headlight surrounds