Are pure Holsteins coming to an end?

[som farmer]

I think it’s eggs harvested and fertilized in vitro . This will produce greater numbers, I seem to remember it has a reputation for producing bigger calves.

with IVF so commonly talked about, I don't think the public would be so anti. On the other hand, it's not the gen public, it's the nutters in the vegan/veggie brigade who do all the shouting !

 

[buffalo_soldier]

Beef chaps on here have said several times it's not the calves so much as the woefull finished price.
Substituting these calves for embryos won't address that.

Read a thing the other day. Bcms reckon there is something like 100k fewer prime beef cattle coming through the system at the moment.
1/3 of all dairy services are now sexed, so there is another ruck of male calves not being produced.

Calving everything on day one to embryos is a bit and a bit.

 

[som farmer]

Beef chaps on here have said several times it's not the calves so much as the woefull finished price.
Substituting these calves for embryos won't address that.

Read a thing the other day. Bcms reckon there is something like 100k fewer prime beef cattle coming through the system at the moment.
1/3 of all dairy services are now sexed, so there is another ruck of male calves not being produced.

Calving everything on day one to embryos is a bit and a bit.

just seen a report, 20% of all calves born, are estimated to die at birth, from all causes, farmers weekly or f guardian. What is going to happen, when we have to stop euthanasia ? For us, it's 2022, for some its next year. That amount of extra cattle to enter the food chain is going to cause major problems. How will suckle herds cope ? I would have thought, that the opportunity to purchase pure bred beef calves would go a long way to replacing suckle cows, if a cow costs £6/700 a year to keep, and to rear 1 calf, one could afford the extra cost, of a pure bred beef calf, quite easily. Sexed semen, will, of course take out a lot of dairy bull calves, but all it will do is to replace the shite dairy bull calves, with shite beef x, its not so much about the breeding of those beef x, it's more about the numbers that will be on the market, you will always have a bottom end, dairy bulls, that currently are the bottom, will simply be replaced by badly bred beef calves, you cannot make a silk purse, from a pigs ear, is what springs to mind !

 

[Serup]

just seen a report, 20% of all calves born, are estimated to die at birth, from all causes, farmers weekly or f guardian. What is going to happen, when we have to stop euthanasia ? For us, it's 2022, for some its next year. That amount of extra cattle to enter the food chain is going to cause major problems. How will suckle herds cope ? I would have thought, that the opportunity to purchase pure bred beef calves would go a long way to replacing suckle cows, if a cow costs £6/700 a year to keep, and to rear 1 calf, one could afford the extra cost, of a pure bred beef calf, quite easily. Sexed semen, will, of course take out a lot of dairy bull calves, but all it will do is to replace the shite dairy bull calves, with shite beef x, its not so much about the breeding of those beef x, it's more about the numbers that will be on the market, you will always have a bottom end, dairy bulls, that currently are the bottom, will simply be replaced by badly bred beef calves, you cannot make a silk purse, from a pigs ear, is what springs to mind !

So called experts here, estimate that the market will adjust itself. And since the dairy bull calfs won’t go away as long as we make milk, they believe the reduction will come from beef herds, as they will sell up when prices plummets. The dairy calves will still come even if they are worthless for some time.

 

[More to life]

Beef chaps on here have said several times it's not the calves so much as the woefull finished price.
Substituting these calves for embryos won't address that.

Read a thing the other day. Bcms reckon there is something like 100k fewer prime beef cattle coming through the system at the moment.
1/3 of all dairy services are now sexed, so there is another ruck of male calves not being produced.

Calving everything on day one to embryos is a bit and a bit.

It would certainly help 24m Holstein £900 24 m Angus £1300 and I dare say the Angus will have eaten less.

 

[M-J-G]

We've tried IVF here and there are advantages, but live calves on the ground aren't much different to flushing.

However some advantages of IVF are that you can harvest eggs weekly, the donor cow can be collected without the multiple injections tbat are required for a flush, you can harvest in earlier stages of pregnancy, you can use 1 straw of semen to fertilize as many eggs as you want, or you can divide the harvested eggs between as many bulls as you want.

 

[Bald Rick]

So called experts here, estimate that the market will adjust itself. And since the dairy bull calfs won’t go away as long as we make milk, they believe the reduction will come from beef herds, as they will sell up when prices plummets. The dairy calves will still come even if they are worthless for some time.

I wonder if there will come a time where there is no need for a calf to produce milk?
Would that be as acceptable as producing protein from insects, bacteria or other methods in a factory?

 

[organicguy]

I think these beef embryo were harvested from fat beef heifers sent to slaughter so possibly could you get more eggs?

They can now harvest eggs from pregnant cows which can be fertilized in the lab and then implanted. My vet is an international expert and is desperate to harvest some from my best cows. He is using it as a treatment for infertile cows and expects embryos to be available at not much more than the cost of a straw.

 

[M-J-G]

They can now harvest eggs from pregnant cows which can be fertilized in the lab and then implanted. My vet is an international expert and is desperate to harvest some from my best cows. He is using it as a treatment for infertile cows and expects embryos to be available at not much more than the cost of a straw.

I doubt that it would be possible to IVF an embryo for the cost of a straw, unless you do it in a country where it's legal have people work for peanuts.

 

[Serup]

They can now harvest eggs from pregnant cows which can be fertilized in the lab and then implanted. My vet is an international expert and is desperate to harvest some from my best cows. He is using it as a treatment for infertile cows and expects embryos to be available at not much more than the cost of a straw.

That sounds like ovum pick up. It's done here also. Viking recon old fashioned flushing is worthwhile on a select small group of animals, and ovum pick up will some time in the future we viable on the best 10% of those they flush today. I've seen it done on a pregnant heifer. Taking eggs out is not difficult for those who do this. But there is a lot of work involved with the eggs after this, before you get a pregnancy in another animal. How wide spread it will be in 10 years i don't know, but in the near future it won't be a common practise, and it is very expensive at the moment. In some countries it is also illegal i believe.

 

[M-J-G]

That sounds like ovum pick up. It's done here also. Viking recon old fashioned flushing is worthwhile on a select small group of animals, and ovum pick up will some time in the future we viable on the best 10% of those they flush today. I've seen it done on a pregnant heifer. Taking eggs out is not difficult for those who do this. But there is a lot of work involved with the eggs after this, before you get a pregnancy in another animal. How wide spread it will be in 10 years i don't know, but in the near future it won't be a common practise, and it is very expensive at the moment. In some countries it is also illegal i believe.

If the beef calf is as valuable as to justify ET or IVF I would think a dual purpose cow bred to a beef bull would be a more realistic option

 

[pappuller]

Read a thing the other day. Bcms reckon there is something like 100k fewer prime beef cattle coming through the system at the moment.
1/3 of all dairy services are now sexed.

This must be a good thing for the flying herd boys then ?

 

[M-J-G]

This must be a good thing for the flying herd boys then ?

In which way would it be better?

 

[pappuller]

In which way would it be better?

Potentially more surplus dairy heifers.

 

[som farmer]

Potentially more surplus dairy heifers.

or less, farmers only use enough sexed for their own requirements. But it does look like IVF is coming down, I reckon our vets were on about putting embryo's in repeat breeders, several years ago, never went any further, and now changed vets !

 

[buffalo_soldier]

Think the outlook for dairy replacements was stable as opposed to surplus.

 

[som farmer]

and, of course, imported hfrs from Europe, may not be so readily available !

 

[M-J-G]

Potentially more surplus dairy heifers.

Won't dairy herds will most likely be mating only what they need to sexed female, and the rest to beef.

 

[jimmer]

But if the calf job is screwed, there'd be more in a buller than a bullock

 

[pappuller]

Won't dairy herds will most likely be mating only what they need to sexed female, and the rest to beef.

All depends the value of the beef calf, it may be more valuable to sell a dairy heifer calf than a beef calf or rear surplus heifers for sale.