Are pure Holsteins coming to an end?

[M-J-G]

It would certainly help 24m Holstein £900 24 m Angus £1300 and I dare say the Angus will have eaten less.

Especially when 1300 for a 24month old animal is no use.

 

[pappuller]

Won't dairy herds will most likely be mating only what they need to sexed female, and the rest to beef.

The potential stopping of live animal transportation to and from Europe could leave a shortfall, supply and demand will dictate which way it goes

 

[M-J-G]

All depends the value of the beef calf, it may be more valuable to sell a dairy heifer calf than a beef calf or rear surplus heifers for sale.

Possibly, the dairy heifer job isn't easy to predict 2 years in advance, particularly when people swing based on today's prices.

I'd guess volatility will be likely.

 

[M-J-G]

The potential stopping of live animal transportation to and from Europe could leave a shortfall, supply and demand will dictate which way it goes

I'd guess ROI could be a gateway to and from Europe.

 

[O'Reilly]

Potentially more surplus dairy heifers.

Yes, if it turns out to have a better conception than expected. I could have a few spare next year on that account.

 

[The Agrarian]

Won't dairy herds will most likely be mating only what they need to sexed female, and the rest to beef.

Sexing applies to the majority of farms, i.e. more than 50%, because it's most available in Holstein. However it's harder to get sexed in other breeds, so less impact there.

Would also be inclined to think that the herds for which the highest fertility outcome is desired - block calvers - then sexed may be avoided as potentially leading to an unpredictable outcome that they can't afford to have. Any spring calvers care to comment on that? @lazy farmer ?

A lot of posts have been given over to embryos here. I just cant see how something as expensive, risky, management intensive, and requiring hormone treatments that would be unpopular with the public, could ever be the way to go. Personally think you're wasting your breath on it.

It's odd that dual purpose breeding I think only got one mention. Seems to me that it was the thing in the past that prevented the occurrence of unwanted bulls...

Friesian, Montbeliarde, Fleckvieh, dairy Shorthorn...

Probably not going to be popular with some of the grazers who want bulling sized milkers.

 

[som farmer]

Sexing applies to the majority of farms, i.e. more than 50%, because it's most available in Holstein. However it's harder to get sexed in other breeds, so less impact there.

Would also be inclined to think that the herds for which the highest possibly fertility outcome is desired - block calvers - then sexed may be avoided as potentially leading to an unpredictable outcome that they can't afford to have. Any spring calvers care to comment on that? @lazy farmer ?

A lot of posts have been given over to embryos here. I just cant see how something as expensive, risky, management intensive, and requiring hormone treatments that would be unpopular with the public, could ever be the way to go. Personally think you're wasting your breath on it.

It's odd that dual purpose breeding I think only got one mention. Seems to me that it was the thing in the past that prevented the occurrence of unwanted bulls...

Friesian, Montbeliarde, Fleckvieh, dairy Shorthorn...

Probably not going to be popular with some of the grazers who want bulling sized milkers.

on embryo transplant, some studies have shown that it will actually lower calving indexes, leading to a more compact block (USA). Whether that is correct or not, remains to be seen. What we do know, is that a large number of extra cattle will come into the mkt, when dairy farmers have to stop euthanasia on calves, possibly 20 % more. What that will do to the price of beef, could well be detrimental, which, in turn, will affect the viability of suckle cows. If you say the cost of keeping a suckle cow, is around £600, and the value of its calf, has to cover that, and all other costs, it does not look good.
If ET became reasonably priced, and you could buy purebred beef calves, in the mkt place, I would think these could go a long way to replace suckle cows, money wise, you would have £600, to cost into the system.
However, as with all things, its not as simple as that, consumer habits are changing, the proportion of top quality joints sold, is decreasing, being replaced by mince and cheaper cuts, this again, will affect the viability of the suckle cow. But, may make, the poor beef cross/dairy calf, a better return, by aiming for the mince/pie market. But, as always, the british farmer will adapt !

 

[Rossymons]

ET work is art imitating science. It isn't being reliably practiced yet - some flushes yield lots of eggs but no embryos, some yield small number eggs which are all fertilised.

Once you get over the huge differences in success and failure to get it down to a consistent number to at least guarantee a level of success similar to that of conventional AI you have the cost to worry to about.

The biggest cost in ET work is the embryo. If that has the value of peanuts to make the system work then what is that saying about the value of the genetics coming out the other end?

 

[M-J-G]

on embryo transplant, some studies have shown that it will actually lower calving indexes, leading to a more compact block (USA). Whether that is correct or not, remains to be seen. What we do know, is that a large number of extra cattle will come into the mkt, when dairy farmers have to stop euthanasia on calves, possibly 20 % more. What that will do to the price of beef, could well be detrimental, which, in turn, will affect the viability of suckle cows. If you say the cost of keeping a suckle cow, is around £600, and the value of its calf, has to cover that, and all other costs, it does not look good.
If ET became reasonably priced, and you could buy purebred beef calves, in the mkt place, I would think these could go a long way to replace suckle cows, money wise, you would have £600, to cost into the system.
However, as with all things, its not as simple as that, consumer habits are changing, the proportion of top quality joints sold, is decreasing, being replaced by mince and cheaper cuts, this again, will affect the viability of the suckle cow. But, may make, the poor beef cross/dairy calf, a better return, by aiming for the mince/pie market. But, as always, the british farmer will adapt !

If you need ET to improve calving index you are in pretty serious trouble.

 

[som farmer]

If you need ET to improve calving index you are in pretty serious trouble.

to us, we don't, but, you never know, if you could calve the whole herd in 4 weeks...………….

 

[pappuller]

to us, we don't, but, you never know, if you could calve the whole herd in 4 weeks...………….

But would that give you such a benefit over calving them over 8 or 12 ??

 

[Princess Pooper]

just seen a report, 20% of all calves born, are estimated to die at birth, from all causes, farmers weekly or f guardian. What is going to happen, when we have to stop euthanasia ? For us, it's 2022, for some its next year. That amount of extra cattle to enter the food chain is going to cause major problems. How will suckle herds cope ? I would have thought, that the opportunity to purchase pure bred beef calves would go a long way to replacing suckle cows, if a cow costs £6/700 a year to keep, and to rear 1 calf, one could afford the extra cost, of a pure bred beef calf, quite easily. Sexed semen, will, of course take out a lot of dairy bull calves, but all it will do is to replace the shite dairy bull calves, with shite beef x, its not so much about the breeding of those beef x, it's more about the numbers that will be on the market, you will always have a bottom end, dairy bulls, that currently are the bottom, will simply be replaced by badly bred beef calves, you cannot make a silk purse, from a pigs ear, is what springs to mind !

wtf? We might lose about 2% of calves, usually a night calving issue. Nothing euthanised. We have these dreadful Holstein things. We have been saying for years that those who are such enthusiasts for the x bred grazing rats would run into trouble with their non-replacement calves. Need to look at the system as a whole, not just the milk bit.

 

[M-J-G]

to us, we don't, but, you never know, if you could calve the whole herd in 4 weeks...………….

4 weeks is of course possible if you're happy for a third of the cows to be empty on a good year. But that can be done without ET work.

A recipient animal needs to be in tip top conditions to take an embryo, hence why heifers are so popular, and even then a 60% constant average would be classed as good.

A working dairy cow would not be optimum by recipient standards and her diet would be classed as unsuitable.
Optimum is generally classed as x-bred heifers, 16-18 months old, housed and on a diet that's not extreme and lots of long fibre.

 

[lazy farmer]

Sexing applies to the majority of farms, i.e. more than 50%, because it's most available in Holstein. However it's harder to get sexed in other breeds, so less impact there.

Would also be inclined to think that the herds for which the highest fertility outcome is desired - block calvers - then sexed may be avoided as potentially leading to an unpredictable outcome that they can't afford to have. Any spring calvers care to comment on that? @lazy farmer ?

A lot of posts have been given over to embryos here. I just cant see how something as expensive, risky, management intensive, and requiring hormone treatments that would be unpopular with the public, could ever be the way to go. Personally think you're wasting your breath on it.

It's odd that dual purpose breeding I think only got one mention. Seems to me that it was the thing in the past that prevented the occurrence of unwanted bulls...

Friesian, Montbeliarde, Fleckvieh, dairy Shorthorn...

Probably not going to be popular with some of the grazers who want bulling sized milkers.

40% on sexed
53% on conventional
Fairly disastrous all round really

 

[The Agrarian]

What proportion of first serves were sexed?

 

[lazy farmer]

That is first service percentages
25% of that was sexed

 

[Devon lad]

I’m a spring calver of “grazing rats”. Will probably go down the sexed route for best 60% for 6 weeks as our bull calves are worthless pretty much as there F8J8. Will Ai BB to 2nd calvers + and HER to the 1st lactation girls. I’ve worked out £75/calve is the cut off point (giving someone a dairy bull calve and £75) any higher than £75 then sexed is economical and lower the conventional is more economical. Bull choice is the biggest issue I think for the sexed for xbreds

 

[Cows 'n grass]

I used 4 sexed bulls, all from cogent. I used 30 straws of each and they all went into cows that had trouble free calvings in the first month of calving. My conception rates were 63%, 65%, 68% and 52 %. I was very pleased with those results and they would be in line with the rest of our discussion group. I will be using 100% sexed and beef in 2020.

 

[Bald Rick]

The potential stopping of live animal transportation to and from Europe could leave a shortfall, supply and demand will dictate which way it goes

Ban not going to apply to breeding animals though

 

[Devon lad]

I used 4 sexed bulls, all from cogent. I used 30 straws of each and they all went into cows that had trouble free calvings in the first month of calving. My conception rates were 63%, 65%, 68% and 52 %. I was very pleased with those results and they would be in line with the rest of our discussion group. I will be using 100% sexed and beef in 2020.

Great results, well done. What was your AI protocol? Am/pm, thawing straws etc.