Are references a thing of the past ?

[JeepJeep]

For Superstars, you're glad to be rid of... It's a need to be capable of "word engineering"

 

[Al R]

I had a number of Students here over the years, some good, some less so.....

I had one exceptional Lad, who came to me after a couple of months on another farm. I had tendered for a large (by my standards) block of arable land and was fiully intending to keep him on and offer hime job, which I know he wanted here.

Sadly, it never came to fruition. So he had to leave, and I provided a really good reference. A few weeks later, I had a call from a farmer about 15 miles away, I didn't know him, but knew him by reputation... Good at the job.

He asked first if the lad was a relative!! I assured him no and that the reference was legit. His response was that he had his doubts a lad could be that good. I was right, he was wrong, as the lad stopped there for around 15 years, leaving for a job with some serious prospects as a working foreman of a big team.

And I bet he still speaks fondly of you if he knew the situation.. I’ve had some bosses I would gladly go back to and recommend people to go to and other places I would tell them to either search elsewhere or claim the dole instead of going to those places.
I’ve had workers who’ve been here on placement that have then done subsequent lambings here years after turning up at my door in tears because of how they’ve been treated at other farms (farmers which I knew too)
3 years ago I had 4 members of staff for lambing, all in the 12 months previous had done a stint on a big sheep farm 20 mile from me with someone I don’t know, all left unpaid and all left either in tears or near breakdowns after only being there a matter of weeks. Ironically there was an open evening at that farm a few months after and I was going to go and tell him how much of a cactus he was but I had other things on

 

[unlacedgecko]

I will pass this Gem to my lad. He has long lost any enthusiasm he once had, in "supporting" the wasters in his Unit.

There has been the odd exception, where he has helped such as the erring squaddie who fell into bad company, who is now a Lance jack, which does please him

90% of my time was taken up with the bottom 10% of my soldiers.

It's rare you can truly turn around a proper wrong 'un. But like you say, sometimes good lads lose their way a bit.

Nothing wrong with a young tom getting into mischief. But it shouldn't become a habit.

One of the (very) few things about reduction in numbers is it made it easier to prune the dead wood. Like the lad 6months out of training who couldn't (wouldn't?) pass a fitness test. He was discharged within 6 months, despite copious effort from his chain of command to assist him.

 

[steveR]

90% of my time was taken up with the bottom 10% of my soldiers.

It's rare you can truly turn around a proper wrong 'un. But like you say, sometimes good lads lose their way a bit.

Nothing wrong with a young tom getting into mischief. But it shouldn't become a habit.

One of the (very) few things about reduction in numbers is it made it easier to prune the dead wood. Like the lad 6months out of training who couldn't (wouldn't?) pass a fitness test. He was discharged within 6 months, despite copious effort from his chain of command to assist him.

TBH, they are essentially young kids, often not the brightest sparks, left home for the first time and can easily fall in with a few bad eggs who seem all bright and sparkly... As you say, most will get into trouble in the town, a beer too many or a fight is hardly unknown....

What has really got his goat, is he joined as an Infantry Officer, and has seemingly spent the past 12 months as a social worker, Plt Commander for a double sized platoon and 2IC... all at once for 4 months!! I tell him it is character building and all good experience and will make him more employable later in life..... maybe

Maybe farming (or shepherding) will appeal in a couple years. Might be simpler than hanging on for the boring stuff in 12 months time?

 

[unlacedgecko]

TBH, they are essentially young kids, often not the brightest sparks, left home for the first time and can easily fall in with a few bad eggs who seem all bright and sparkly... As you say, most will get into trouble in the town, a beer too many or a fight is hardly unknown....

What has really got his goat, is he joined as an Infantry Officer, and has seemingly spent the past 12 months as a social worker, Plt Commander for a double sized platoon and 2IC... all at once for 4 months!! I tell him it is character building and all good experience and will make him more employable later in life..... maybe

Maybe farming (or shepherding) will appeal in a couple years. Might be simpler than hanging on for the boring stuff in 12 months time?

Sounds like me as a 20 yr old Troop Commander in Belfast

Your boy expected fire and manoeuvre but is now stuck doing dusting and hoover

Toms are the single most important asset the army has. Assuming he's a grad he's only got a few short months in command. Then staff work will make him wish for another command appointment.

 

[steveR]

Sounds like me as a 20 yr old Troop Commander in Belfast

Toms are the single most important asset the army has. Assuming he's a grad he's only got a few short months in command. Then staff work will make him wish for another command appointment.

He's 3 years in Regs and yes, Staff work is raising it's ugly head more and more!

Silly clot should have gone RE, but playing around in Green beckoned Having a play in Norway at the moment, before off to Catterick nursemaiding newbies then Captaincy. Although to be fair he is good at that training stuff... Did 3 years as Reserve Officer while at Uni and after, so lots in the training role.

Your boy expected fire and manoeuvre but is now stuck doing dusting and hoover

Love it... not heard that one before

 

[Anymulewilldo]

One major issue is few people want to provide experience. Everyone wants experienced staff.

There’s that much faff and mither with having ANYONE on farm nowadays. Unfortunately it can be more hassle than it’s worth providing someone with training so they get the experience too go on with.

 

[little_p]

We had an apprentice who was promising initially but went off the rails fairly quickly. In the end, we had to give him an ultimatum and he left. On several occasions following this, potential employers came looking for references for him. We decided that it was better to simply not give references aside from stating employment dates. On one occasion a company sent us a long form to fill in. We decided to do this but were careful to keep the answers completely factual and unemotional.

Employment law can be a minefield and, even with an employment consultant available to keep things sweet, even they got things wrong sometimes. Getting it wrong and ending up in court can be very expensive. "Less is more" is never more true.

But stating employment dates and answering questions IS providing a reference.

You might want to add a disclaimer to any references provided along the lines of -
"It is our general practice to provide only the dates of employment and last position held in response to enquiries about former employees. The provision of such information does not imply any comment, negative or positive about the employee or the course of their employment with the company.
This information is given without liability on the part of the writer or the company. It is given in confidence and should only be used for the purposes for which it was requested"

 

[Happy]

For Superstars, you're glad to be rid of... It's a need to be capable of "word engineering"

i’m sure there is quite a bit of that goes on too.
A neighbour once took on a new employee who turned out not to be much good at anything other than breaking things..
A year or so later while at the market he got introduced and starting chatting to this guys previous employer.
That was a very good reference you gave Jock he said.
Yes, and I’m sure you will give him a very good one too was the reply!

 

[Aha_Lucia]

Just curious really, what got me thinking was a previous employee of mine.

People always say good staff in Ag are really hard to find. But rarely do people seem to request references from previous employers when they are looking to take someone on. Why is this?

I sacked a lad about 2 years ago. Mainly for being a lying, thieving, woman beating, young girl grooming muppet who wasn’t very good at his job.

Interestingly he left me, went somewhere else, I never got asked for a reference and they found him to be the same.

He was booted out there.... and is now shepherd at a very prestigious estate..... for the queen.

No references asked by them of either previous employers ......

Just find it a bit strange.

Sounds familiar, if he’s from Australia
I once warned an employer I was just leaving to not to employ this person and he just went and gave him a job. Then he stole, trashed the house and killed some livestock in couple of months. He had his friends as references though.

 

[Tim W]

I once worked for a local JP /farmer who failed to pay me ---had to take him to small claims court which was very embarrassing for him as his friends were the panel/bench

I eventually collected my dues and then wrote to him asking for a reference ---he wrote me a reference which was 2 words long---- never did get to use it