CopperBeech
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- Location
- A Welsh man lost in England
So we should hunt down and kill any dog of a certain breed because they are all aggressive and evil ? Sounds fair.
Are staffs bull terrier classed as dangerous breed?
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CopperBeech
Member
- Location
- A Welsh man lost in England
And I guess you find racial profiling acceptable ?
You won’t win with these kind of people, they haven’t got a clue!!!! What moron buys an adult dog of any breed an let’s it round there baby!!!!!! It’s the people that need jailing!!!!!! As well as the dog needed shooting, but if the dog had been taught some manners from day one this would never of happened!! Same with children, all this liberal parenting shîte, let the kids run riot everywhere, can’t make them sit still while out in public, they must have an opinion an all that shît!!??? NO your not liberal, your rearing unruly little barstewards that don’t no how to behave in public, they needed a clip round the ear with the same stick the dog should get!!! It’s called discipline simple!!!!
Dogs, all of them, have canine teeth for a reason, for tearing up meat. Babies and small children are easy meat, adults a bit more difficult. Anybody who owns a dog should be aware of this. Although I can have some sympathy for the parents whose child got killed that sympathy is far outweighed by my astonishment at the sheer ignorance that led to the event, utterly preventable by not owning a dog.
- Location
- Derbyshire
I hadn't meant to cause offence. I like all dogs - genuinely. I just feel there are some that are more likely to be less keen on mixing with other dogs and this is a trait I don't like. I have collies that are like it and if I didn't need working dogs, I wouldn't choose those types for pets. Not all dogs are the same to start with - surely you appreciate that?! We have bred dogs a certain way to achieve breeds so surely if you breed for traits you need for fighting or killing vermin, do you not favour traits for dominance? So why are we puzzled when a Jack Russell doesn't behave like a labrador or a Staffie doesn't behave like an Irish Setter? It can't all be learned otherwise we would be using labradors to herd sheep and jack Russells as guide dogs.
It is quite different to racial profiling, which of course I do not agree with.
It does sound incredibly stupid, but I have a lot of sympathy, it’s utterly tragic. Their stupidity makes it even harder on them, they will have to live in that knowledge for the rest of their lives.
Why would you want a big bull breed in any circumstance tho? Make you look a bit harder? Wouldn’t have happened with a collie or a golden retriever.
It’s not the same. Dogs aren’t people. They are nowhere near as valuable. Rating animals as having equal worth/value/importance as people is an increasingly common and worrying view that seems to be sweeping ‘civilisation’
CopperBeech
Member
- Location
- A Welsh man lost in England
I was probably a bit sharp, but it’s just a personal gripe of mine, peoples attitudes toward dogs. In such a myriad of ways.
I agree that there are extremes in any breed and also obviously certain dogs have certain traits. But if anyone on here goes shooting they’ve probably all met enough dog aggressive labs to know that they can be right b*stards.
What I have a right issue with is the idea that all of a certain breed is dangerous and all others are safer. Regardless of whether the Pitt bull is soft as sh!t with people and the collie is a nasty snappy tw*t.
Some dogs are really not appropriate for some homes, that is simple. But that doesn’t mean they should be banned, and killed if found.
The most common breeds used in man work are GSD, Malis etc. Anyone can buy one and go to a registered trainer and get it trained to attack people. And keep it at home. But if I have a Pitt bull that’s old and soft and fat, it’s dangerous and illegal ?
CopperBeech
Member
- Location
- A Welsh man lost in England
So you’re telling me that a golden retriever or collie would never attack a child or person ? Really ?
Apparently they left the child alone with the dog and went out. A dog that was bought two weeks before. Regardless of the breed, that was a recipe for disaster!
Bulldogs are very intelligent, biddable dogs, great temp, loyal, easy to train, good nose.
No I’m telling you that they are way less liable to maul a toddler to death, really.
Deluded if you think otherwise.
These stories always have the same types of breeds as the culprits.
CopperBeech
Member
- Location
- A Welsh man lost in England
Sadly you’re right, and I think that’s for two reasons. Firstly certain breeds just attract idiots, and that’s a recipe for disaster. And secondly when a bull dog grabs your kid it’s game over, and when a little dog does it’s just a bite. The dog below was just under half bull and was a sweet heart, very driven and a hard dog, but well mannered with other dogs and soft as sh!t with people. She loved kids.
The type of folk that are often attracted to them are often poor and vulnerable, looking for protection or trying to look hard (same thing really), and these dogs fit that bill, but definitely come with very specific risks.
CopperBeech
Member
- Location
- A Welsh man lost in England
Sadly these days it’s two reasons as you say - status ..... and money. People lying crazy sums for these xl bully things and stuff like that. People breeding sh!t from sh!t and selling it to morons rarely ends well. As I said to me it’s not the dog it’s just the wrong dog in the wrong hands and the wrong place.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
I have been trying to think how to explain why some dogs become dangerous, like the dog that attacked the child.
It's like this. Dog training is often like opening one of those combination locks. Press the right buttons in the right order and the door opens. In the case of dogs that attack, the right combination (of events/situations) has somehow come together and the dog reacts. Instinct is usually what kicks off the first stage which may be harmless. (Of course, in real life it is the trainer who ensures these events come together). Dog kills a mouse. No big deal. Next thing, similar 'triggers' cause the dog to chase and kill a rabbit. Then it's a lamb....or a baby. An extreme example, but you get the idea. Similar elements are involved -- movement, sound, experience....and instincts which get the ball rolling (metaphorically and often actually).
I had a friend bring his vet to my door. The vet had a pet pointer that he had been trying to train to point game for two years (or so he said). I told him I would get some pigeons and we'd go down the field and if I could not get his dog pointing in 20 minutes, I would lend him a gun to shoot the dog. I think we did it in 10 minutes. And I taught the dog to drop on command on the walk back to the house. That is no credit to my abilities as a trainer but it does prove I know which buttons to press! Another man, a fellow falconer, asked me why his pointer would not point game and what could he do? I asked him what he would do if he had a falcon with a similar problem? He has not been back so I assume it worked!
In the case of a dog that attacks, the right (or rather 'wrong'!) buttons have been pressed leading to the unfortunate incident. Dogs have no morals and their thought processes are not the same as ours. My young GSD pups started to chase my free range hens. I cured that quickly by chasing after them and giving them a tap with a small stick the moment their mouths met feathers. I said not a word. It wasn't me wielding the stick, it was the hen that bit them. They did not want to repeat the experience and haven't bothered the hens since. I used a similar technique to stop my goshawk tethered on the lawn from killing the hens which strayed within easy reach. I waited until it killed one and started eating it, then I sneaked up and sprinkled pepper on the corpse. Hens do not taste nice, so no point in killing them. But these days that is un-PC and I am a bad person. Nature was wicked when she created pain. Everyone knows that all training is done with tidbits and no dog should ever be put down because they can be rehabilitated with treats and love.
It's like this. Dog training is often like opening one of those combination locks. Press the right buttons in the right order and the door opens. In the case of dogs that attack, the right combination (of events/situations) has somehow come together and the dog reacts. Instinct is usually what kicks off the first stage which may be harmless. (Of course, in real life it is the trainer who ensures these events come together). Dog kills a mouse. No big deal. Next thing, similar 'triggers' cause the dog to chase and kill a rabbit. Then it's a lamb....or a baby. An extreme example, but you get the idea. Similar elements are involved -- movement, sound, experience....and instincts which get the ball rolling (metaphorically and often actually).
I had a friend bring his vet to my door. The vet had a pet pointer that he had been trying to train to point game for two years (or so he said). I told him I would get some pigeons and we'd go down the field and if I could not get his dog pointing in 20 minutes, I would lend him a gun to shoot the dog. I think we did it in 10 minutes. And I taught the dog to drop on command on the walk back to the house. That is no credit to my abilities as a trainer but it does prove I know which buttons to press! Another man, a fellow falconer, asked me why his pointer would not point game and what could he do? I asked him what he would do if he had a falcon with a similar problem? He has not been back so I assume it worked!
In the case of a dog that attacks, the right (or rather 'wrong'!) buttons have been pressed leading to the unfortunate incident. Dogs have no morals and their thought processes are not the same as ours. My young GSD pups started to chase my free range hens. I cured that quickly by chasing after them and giving them a tap with a small stick the moment their mouths met feathers. I said not a word. It wasn't me wielding the stick, it was the hen that bit them. They did not want to repeat the experience and haven't bothered the hens since. I used a similar technique to stop my goshawk tethered on the lawn from killing the hens which strayed within easy reach. I waited until it killed one and started eating it, then I sneaked up and sprinkled pepper on the corpse. Hens do not taste nice, so no point in killing them. But these days that is un-PC and I am a bad person. Nature was wicked when she created pain. Everyone knows that all training is done with tidbits and no dog should ever be put down because they can be rehabilitated with treats and love.
- Location
- Carmarthenshire, West Wales
go on, I would like to hear the other facts.
- Location
- Carmarthenshire, West Wales
I remember someone I used to work with, had a spaniel, and Gerald said he took it out with sheep and when it chased them, he gave it a real bollocking, chased again, duffed it up again, so his dog learned never to chase sheep. I think he called is "scruffing". I remember his saying this should be done to all gun dogs, so they could be safely used in fields with sheep.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
To my mind, that is flawed psychology and not what I was describing. Have another go at reading my post. Excessive punishment/pain can back fire leaving the dog with worse issues that hadn't been considered.
In your example, it is clear to the dog that the handler has inflicted the punishment. The dog has to work out that it is the sheep that is responsible for the pain. With my methods, the dog doesn't associate the punishment with the handler but with the hen it has caught in it's mouth. The hawk killing hens is a clearer example as it finds eating the hen distasteful so doesn't repeat the experience. Of course, if a behaviour becomes established it becomes a habit and that is a different matter.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
That is true. But once the pack is established, hierarchy and the rules are applied, dog to dog, with the slightest of gestures. You see this every day if you work with a pack of hounds or, like CopperBeach, with a lot of dogs.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Wait for the book and hand your money over!
