Are the days of lambing inside numbered?

rancher

Member
Location
Ireland
i use spectam based on risk.....if the lambs strong + ewe got milk there's no real need is there .......colostruming lambs can be a time saver when busy as you know that lamb has some 'steam' to get up get going.... rancher makes a good point re protein (y)

i reckon dedicated lambing pens are terrible idea....they get used over and over again.....take a lot of work to keep clean....the more convinient ones also get used more.....i pen them up in the section where they lamb...plenty fresh straw and iodine navels:)
Yea , they're a lot of work to keep clean, but it's worth it, lovely to put a ewe into a clean bedded pen after lambing.
I'm probably obsessive about feeding ewes before lambing, but I believe it's the most cost effective time to feed ewes well in the whole year, the returns are ten fold ,
 
Without being rude, or disrespectful in any way at all, if you are relying / using Orojet or Spectam etc as a matter of course you either have a colostrum / ewe nutrition or a hygiene / best practice problem in your shed, where triplets or susceptible lambs are not getting sufficient supplementary colostrum through clean kit or are picking bugs up in the pens.

Those red rubber tubes are about the worst thing ever for spreading disease.
To my understanding the 'op' is discussing a worse case situation not a routine treatment. I totally agree with you though in general
 
My vet told me that spectam was losing its lisence soon, maybe he was wrong. He said the reason was prophylactic use across whole flocks and that I was lucky that it was still effective for me. I find it very handy to keep on the self for when needed, but only use it on the odd ones that look like they could be coming down with watery mouth.
I can't believe that people use prophylactic AB, it seems insane to me. It might be cheap now but what about when resistance takes hold and your tool box is significantly reduced.
 

yellowbelly

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
N.Lincs
What’s pruex?
 

Moors Lad

Member
Location
N Yorks
I'm probably obsessive about feeding ewes before lambing, but I believe it's the most cost effective time to feed ewes well in the whole year, the returns are ten fold ,
Very good point - ewes carrying more than one lamb MUST be on a diet suitable to produce plenty of good quality colostrum. It no doubt helps if she`s a "milky" type too. Very important to look for a good quality feed (good ingredients) if concentrates are used - a little more expense (per ewe!) can pay real dividends in stronger lambs, less deaths AND less work/stress for all!!
 

Ysgythan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ammanford
What’s pruex?

 

rancher

Member
Location
Ireland

To be fair, Ecoli is everywhere in the lambing shed, you fight it by keeping the shed as clean as you can to reduce the challenge and increasing the lambs immunity by having a good strong lamb and ensuring they get colostrum as quick as possible, I wouldn't agree with putting in cow colostrum first (as per gullis' earlier post), thereby reducing the appetite for the good ewe colostrum for a few hours
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
To be fair, Ecoli is everywhere in the lambing shed, you fight it by keeping the shed as clean as you can to reduce the challenge and increasing the lambs immunity by having a good strong lamb and ensuring they get colostrum as quick as possible, I wouldn't agree with putting in cow colostrum first (as per gullis' earlier post), thereby reducing the appetite for the good ewe colostrum for a few hours

Pruex works by populating the shed with non-pathogenic bacteria, so the E.Coli doesn’t have room to multiply and become dominant, so preventing it being ‘everywhere’. Every time you clean out and disinfect a pen, you are providing a blank Petri dish for the E.Coli to multiply rapidly again, just as soon as you introduce a sheep that is potentially covered in those bacteria.

It’s a different way of approaching it, rather than the usual approaches of either napalming everything or firefighting established problems.
 
To be fair, Ecoli is everywhere in the lambing shed, you fight it by keeping the shed as clean as you can to reduce the challenge and increasing the lambs immunity by having a good strong lamb and ensuring they get colostrum as quick as possible, I wouldn't agree with putting in cow colostrum first (as per gullis' earlier post), thereby reducing the appetite for the good ewe colostrum for a few hours

I find some cows colustrum gives the lambs energy to want to suckle from the ewe.

Most triplets get a dose here apart from those bred from 100% maternal breed.

Would be better from suckler cow on the farm especially if dosed with heptavac.

Goat or milk sheep colustrum would be perfect but too big a disease risk.
 

rancher

Member
Location
Ireland
I find some cows colustrum gives the lambs energy to want to suckle from the ewe.

Most triplets get a dose here apart from those bred from 100% maternal breed.

Would be better from suckler cow on the farm especially if dosed with heptavac.

Goat or milk sheep colustrum would be perfect but too big a disease risk.

I'd rate Cow colosrtrum ahead of artificial anyway, I'd always be milking singles here too, even with scanning rates of two you'll have singles.
Sucklers are a great source too......... if you could find a quiet one
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
My vet told me that spectam was losing its lisence soon, maybe he was wrong. He said the reason was prophylactic use across whole flocks and that I was lucky that it was still effective for me. I find it very handy to keep on the self for when needed, but only use it on the odd ones that look like they could be coming down with watery mouth.
I can't believe that people use prophylactic AB, it seems insane to me. It might be cheap now but what about when resistance takes hold and your tool box is significantly reduced.
I think what is cheap and economic for an individual, is not necessarily cheap and economic for a society and I think antibiotic use falls into this category
  • WHO has declared that AMR is one of the top 10 global public health threats facing humanity.
I think this is not just spectam, but in all areas, routine use on farms, and too much use for people.

I don't know how it is now in Denmark, are there any members here from DK? When I was there 30 or so years ago, we had to have the vet out to inject antibiotics, so i think Dairy farmers bred animals that were far more resistant to mastitis.

My vet has told me, that vet practices here in Wales are bench marking themselves over their use, and going right down to individual vets, this to me can only be a good thing.

I will add, when I was in Denmark, you did not need a vet to inject pigs, that you could do yourselves.
 

gatepost

Member
Location
Cotswolds
The sheep sector will change a bit in the next decade , emphasis slowly shifting to lowland flocks integrated into arable systems which could lead to fewer indoor Lambers? It should by definition be good for sheep....clean grazing, low worm burdens, good growth rates & a possible further reduction in AB use?
It will be interesting to see how ELMS fits in, but certainly around me there is still fundamental oposition to ''bothering having those damn sheep anywhere near our beautiful arable fields''. one neigbour is managing to do a mutual root growing thing, but my sheep roots got blamed for the flea beetle killing off the rape last year :banghead:
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Pruex works by populating the shed with non-pathogenic bacteria, so the E.Coli doesn’t have room to multiply and become dominant, so preventing it being ‘everywhere’. Every time you clean out and disinfect a pen, you are providing a blank Petri dish for the E.Coli to multiply rapidly again, just as soon as you introduce a sheep that is potentially covered in those bacteria.

It’s a different way of approaching it, rather than the usual approaches of either napalming everything or firefighting established problems.

I've never tried Pruex, but I think the principle is spot on.

One of my first years of lambing I was determined to try and make the lambing shed as 'clean' as possible, continually spraying with various disinfectants. It was the worse year for infections I've ever had.
A sterile surface is available to be colonised by whatever bacteria get there first. A 'dirty' surface that doesn't currently give any problems will be much more difficult for any particular pathogen to multiply on.
At the end of the lambing period I may find specific pens that seem to give trouble which I simply stop using for anything susceptible.
 

primmiemoo

Member
Location
Devon
I can see why some systems end up with every lamb dosed. You want to do the best for them, and it's easy to see a squirt or jab of anti-b as protection. Start full on lambing, and it clicks into the standard pattern of work on autopilot.
It would be better for the lambs to use a homeopathic preparation of Suck Rose & Akwa at 0.5ml/lamb, orally, in those circumstances ~ the dosing equipment and shepherd's hands being washed and dried between lambs.

Came close to dosing all doubles here for the autopilot reason, although singles never were. Now, it's only the quads that have had the single bottle bought stored nearest their group. Better to have the bottle unopened, and clean tubing kits on standby.

Ime, for tubing, the clear tubes to fit on 60ml catheter syringes are far and away the best. They can be washed in hot water before sterilising with Milton, and don't perish.

The COP figures are saying, as others have mentioned, that a few p/head on better feed before lambing, combined with sampling fodder, scanning, and long-term selection for milky, vigorous ewes makes for a much easier and cheaper lambing time. There's time to focus on lambing hygiene, as well.
 

Farmer Keith

Member
Location
North Cumbria
Pah. I speak to pedigree breeders that never lose a lamb at all.

I take that with a pinch of salt too, and even offered one of them a job lambing for me once.🤣

The target I think for losses before turnout is less than 7% and I’m sure the national average losses until 8 weeks is nearer 14%.

I’m not saying people are being dishonest but until you record what you actually lose they’re easily forgotten. Simplest way is to check what you scanned then look at how many lambs you sold/retained in any given season, then you can start to work out where they all went.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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