Are their any other zero till drills (with a similar tine as used on the Amazone Condor drill) available in the uk?

[YELROM]

Great.

Now drop the Claydon, straw rake, and the X-Press. Buy a tine drill (not a strip-till drill) to start and away you go. Deal with the blackgrass through a true CA system, not by trying to get it to grow in-between crops and your're there.

We are a mixed farm removing all the straw and returning it back as FYM and DD with a Moores drill.
Was thinking of replacing the Moores drill with a bigger one but might keep it and buy a tine drill
What tine drills do you recommend

 

[Suddy]

Do you DD with the Rapid and if you do has it replaced the Moores you had

Yes on both accounts

 

[Suddy]

does a Haney test work out soil om via loss on ignition ?

No idea

 

[Brisel]

Will do. ?someone needs to be blunt on here. Cheers

Being blunt with strangers won't always get you a warm reception. Now I know a bit more about you, let's move on. Thinking of carbon, are you near any open cast coal mine sites?

does a Haney test work out soil om via loss on ignition ?

One for @Warnesworth I'd like to know more too please.

I've had some Solvita tests done. the SOM test used there is Dumas

Sorry, this is getting a bit off topic, though I do use a tine drill....

 

[ih1455xl]

I likes the look of this tine drill with front disc

TECHMAGRI - Constructeur matériels agricoles en France (Aube)

TECHMAGRI - Constructeur spécialiste en France des matériels pour les techniques de conservation des sols. Plus de 40 ans d'expérience.

www.techmagri.com

 

[Hjwise]

We are a mixed farm removing all the straw and returning it back as FYM and DD with a Moores drill.
Was thinking of replacing the Moores drill with a bigger one but might keep it and buy a tine drill
What tine drills do you recommend

Do you drill straight in to the FYM? We apply a lot of turkey muck and I’m trying to figure out how that will fit in to a DD system. I drilled our OSR with a Claydon this year - half with muck cultivated in and half left on top. The cultivated side is pretty good the other side is poor. I think most the N was lost to the atmosphere.

 

[Two Tone]

I’ve been keeping an eye in this thread and the Weaving GD user thread and the more bloody confused I get!

My overriding thought with any system is dealing with Blackgrass.
When you have got Blackgrass, you must wake up every morning and ask yourself “What can I do to reduce my Blackgrass problem today?”
If you can do anything, DO IT!
Not tomorrow because things can change and usually do.

So, I’m looking at all types of DD drill and I cannot escape the realisation that the less soil movement I can achieve, the less chance there is of disturbing any Blackgrass seed which will make it germinate UNLESS you completely bury it more than 2” by properly ploughing it.

I‘ve seen and watched videos on just about every type of DD drill out there and I cannot escape the fact that every type if tine drill there is, including the Amazons Condor tine moves far too much soil for my liking.

That leaves disc type drills, which create other problems such as “hair-pining”and poor slot closure, risking poor germination if it dries out. It seems logical to me that an angled disc such as the GD gets over both these problems to a certain extent, but most importantly doesn’t create anything like the soil disturbance that any tine drill does.

Then I hear die-hard DD’ers favourite expression of “Flexibility“ in all things regards type of drill and crop rotation, cover crops and the need to want to make it work, etc, etc.
To me that MUST include being flexible enough to go back to a plough when conditions just aren’t right for any DD drill to work.
Yes, there will be times and seasons where soil conditions will allow a DD to work well. But not always on all soils.

Honestly, are we forgetting that farming like any other industry is a business? Any business needs to make money, preferably the more the better, or it dies.

Yes large scale farmers can more easily justify the capital cost of several types of establishment kit and techniques. But some of us less-large farmers and managers find it a lot more difficult to justify and can’t afford to bugger around with our farm-owners/business’s capital.

I seriously wonder sometimes if the way that some keep banging on about on these threads that they think they have all the answers and know it all, just like the bloody vegans do! Anybody would think it is some sort of extremist religion!

I for one, cannot afford the money or time to waste trying and firmly believe I should just make my own judgement and decisions from my own experiences and soil mechanics knowledge and plough my own furrow. But sometimes, where and when I can without using an actual plough!


The war against Blackgrass is one that can never be won. We can win a lot of battles. However, just when we think we have cracked it, then we get a wet season and/or the stuff that survives will survive exactly the same when we use exactly the same system next time.

We can bang on about soil Carbon, fuel and time savings as much as we like. But no matter what religion we would all like to follow as regards crop establishmen, those of us who suffer from Blackgrass must use all our knowledge and techniques to win as many battles as possible against it.

Forever and ever, Amen!

 

[DieselRob]

I’ve been keeping an eye in this thread and the Weaving GD user thread and the more bloody confused I get!

My overriding thought with any system is dealing with Blackgrass.
When you have got Blackgrass, you must wake up every morning and ask yourself “What can I do to reduce my Blackgrass problem today?”
If you can do anything, DO IT!
Not tomorrow because things can change and usually do.

So, I’m looking at all types of DD drill and I cannot escape the realisation that the less soil movement I can achieve, the less chance there is of disturbing any Blackgrass seed which will make it germinate UNLESS you completely bury it more than 2” by properly ploughing it.

I‘ve seen and watched videos on just about every type of DD drill out there and I cannot escape the fact that every type if tine drill there is, including the Amazons Condor tine moves far too much soil for my liking.

That leaves disc type drills, which create other problems such as “hair-pining”and poor slot closure, risking poor germination if it dries out. It seems logical to me that an angled disc such as the GD gets over both these problems to a certain extent, but most importantly doesn’t create anything like the soil disturbance that any tine drill does.

Then I hear die-hard DD’ers favourite expression of “Flexibility“ in all things regards type of drill and crop rotation, cover crops and the need to want to make it work, etc, etc.
To me that MUST include being flexible enough to go back to a plough when conditions just aren’t right for any DD drill to work.
Yes, there will be times and seasons where soil conditions will allow a DD to work well. But not always on all soils.

Honestly, are we forgetting that farming like any other industry is a business? Any business needs to make money, preferably the more the better, or it dies.

Yes large scale farmers can more easily justify the capital cost of several types of establishment kit and techniques. But some of us less-large farmers and managers find it a lot more difficult to justify and can’t afford to bugger around with our farm-owners/business’s capital.

I seriously wonder sometimes if the way that some keep banging on about on these threads that they think they have all the answers and know it all, just like the bloody vegans do! Anybody would think it is some sort of extremist religion!

I for one, cannot afford the money or time to waste trying and firmly believe I should just make my own judgement and decisions from my own experiences and soil mechanics knowledge and plough my own furrow. But sometimes, where and when I can without using an actual plough!


The war against Blackgrass is one that can never be won. We can win a lot of battles. However, just when we think we have cracked it, then we get a wet season and/or the stuff that survives will survive exactly the same when we use exactly the same system next time.

We can bang on about soil Carbon, fuel and time savings as much as we like. But no matter what religion we would all like to follow as regards crop establishmen, those of us who suffer from Blackgrass must use all our knowledge and techniques to win as many battles as possible against it.

Forever and ever, Amen!

1 like isn't enough for this post, it basically sums up exactly how I feel about a transition to DD, the only difference being I don't have blackgrass to contend with (said whilst firmly grasping the wooden coffee table!)

Asking questions about tine vs disc is just met with "it's not about the drill" by the brethren but it actually does have to be a little bit about the metal bit that puts the seed in the ground, my youtube history this week has been all manor of drills and I agree with you that I think any time drill I've seen has moved too much soil, but the Techmagri looks to move the least soil I've watched, so maybe there is hope for a tine drill. Trying to find second hand options of various systems seems to be a task in itself, is there a special club 2nd hand shop where you need to know the handshake to view the stock list??

As useful as TFF can be, the DD forum can be a very unwelcoming place!

 

[juke]

No idea

ill hazard a guess that it does use loss on ignition the same as others om tests and if that is the case then your levels of 6 are null and void, however you could use those tests as a base to see how your future efforts turn out .

 

[YELROM]

Do you drill straight in to the FYM? We apply a lot of turkey muck and I’m trying to figure out how that will fit in to a DD system. I drilled our OSR with a Claydon this year - half with muck cultivated in and half left on top. The cultivated side is pretty good the other side is poor. I think most the N was lost to the atmosphere.

We spread most of our muck in spring on growing crops but we do spread some and drill straight into it.
Do you think the side you cultivated had better soil to seed contact due to the cultivation making it a better crop

 

[Hjwise]

They are both fairly heavy fields and dry at the time, so I would say a bit of both. I’d like to try spreading turkey muck in the spring but I’ve yet to see a spreader cover 24m evenly. On our heavy land it would look a bit of a mess running in between the tramlines.

 

[YELROM]

It might not be ideal but we do a run between the tramlines

 

[Brisel]

They are both fairly heavy fields and dry at the time, so I would say a bit of both. I’d like to try spreading turkey muck in the spring but I’ve yet to see a spreader cover 24m evenly. On our heavy land it would look a bit of a mess running in between the tramlines.

Bergmann type with horizontal beaters, a hood and spinning discs?

 

[Hjwise]

It depends on the moisture content of the muck. My old Bunning’s will only do about 10m - the new ones will do more like 18 (similar to the Bergmann). Turkey muck is pretty potent so it needs to go on evenly to avoid striping.

 

[l'ordinary bonville]

If you have black grass and going tine drill do you go slower to reduce soil movement?

Does that mean we should go "American" and have much wider drills running at 7kph rather than the more "European" at least 10kph?

 

[Pilatus]

If you have black grass and going tine drill do you go slower to reduce soil movement?

Does that mean we should go "American" and have much wider drills running at 7kph rather than the more "European" at least 10kph?

Here on the Cotswolds where there is more stone than soil , a tined drill is a must and 7kph is plenty fast enough, to allow tines to gently push stone to one side and deposit seed in what little soil there is or ever lightly to be !!!!!!
So here American style is the way to go “wide and slow”.
But most of you are in a completely different situation , so same old story “horse’s for courses”.

 

[kiwi]

I likes the look of this tine drill with front disc

TECHMAGRI - Constructeur matériels agricoles en France (Aube)

TECHMAGRI - Constructeur spécialiste en France des matériels pour les techniques de conservation des sols. Plus de 40 ans d'expérience.

www.techmagri.com

Have you seen this machine working in heavy barley or wheat straw.? How well does it penetrate the soil.? It seems to good to be true . I know the designers of the cross slot looked at doing this but had trouble with getting the residue handling to be good enough. The video makes it look impressive .

 

[ih1455xl]

Have you seen this machine working in heavy barley or wheat straw.? How well does it penetrate the soil.? It seems to good to be true . I know the designers of the cross slot looked at doing this but had trouble with getting the residue handling to be good enough. The video makes it look impressive .

I haven’t but the old man was in France talking to a chap that uses one he cuts the wings of new point so there’s just a slot not a T

 

[Grass And Grain]

Yes on both accounts

That's really interesting. Mainly because lots of people already have a rapid.

How do you make this work? Just direct in? A light cultivation first? Only certain soil types? Can you close the slots ok? Through cover crops?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but you've really got my attention with this.

Presumably you don't feel the rapid can do everything, as you have another drill as well.

Thanks.

 

[D14]

How you work that out? It's not just the headline cost of the drill and the need for 60+ hp/metre to pull a Cross Slot. Massive savings in time and fuel. A new plough or combi drill would have a similar effect. Yes, it does require rethinking your capital employed.

A 750A requires circa 25 hp/m.

There are only two proper no till drills on the market. CS and Sly (Horizon or whatever they are called now).

Also remember that a bought and paid for plough costs metal only. A bought and paid for combi drill costs metal only.
A father and son team who put all their living costs through the business are cheap labour.

I’m not advocating the approach, merely saying that those setups are not going to increase costs just to get into no till because it’s trendy. They have a tried and tested system that pays well. I’ve neighbours doing just this. 15yrs ago they had 450 acres. Today 950 acres. They’ve bought the balance without outside money. They start ploughing and drilling in October and finish in April with roughly a 50:50 winter/spring rotation. They aim to cover about 60 acres per week minimum and go about it in a very leisurely way. 2 x 200hp tractors, 5F plough, 4m combi drill, 24m mounted sprayer, 6m paddle rolls, 2 x 14t grain trailer. Hired combine, 3t telehandler, hedgecutter.
If they swapped to no till all they will loose is the plough because they still need two tractors for grain haulage. All machinery is bought and paid for. They replace things rarely but when they do they write a cheque out for it there and then.