Are us "Normal Farmers" getting left behind??

[FonterraFarmer]

How can they measure it if you have your own supply

Anything over 15m3 per day (excluding stock water must be metered and recorded) must have a resourse consent.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

How can they measure it if you have your own supply

I've got too much of the stuff here.
Plus I have the town supply up on the hill that I can ransom off if they want to charge me a rate on it
But different if I was bottling the stuff and selling it, I don't even like the taste of it when I have springs to fill a bottle in.

 

[Henarar]

so you can still water stock without being charged
so what water will you be charged for ? domestic ?

 

[Henarar]

what about air
are they going to tax you for breathing ?
look out when you go for a p1ss behind the hedge it will cost you
FFS

 

[Kiwi Pete]

so you can still water stock without being charged
so what water will you be charged for ? domestic ?

Irrigation will be the one- effectively making irrigated sheep farms face paying a years' profit as water tax, lose an employee, or convert to dairy
Very well thought out policy .
Very sensible .

I think that may be why "fair" is overrated in my book at the moment.
Socialism rewards nobody fairly, by being so "fair".

Air tax, they actually scrapped my annual ham radio licence fee so I'm back as a licenced operator again. Amazing that something as simple as not-for-profit wireless communication deserved a charge in the first instance?
But they decided we all share the air.

Pollution tax, I'm all for that one

 

[Henarar]

Irrigation will be the one- effectively making irrigated sheep farms face paying a years' profit as water tax, lose an employee, or convert to dairy
Very well thought out policy .
Very sensible .

I think that may be why "fair" is overrated in my book at the moment.
Socialism rewards nobody fairly, by being so "fair".

Air tax, they actually scrapped my annual ham radio licence fee so I'm back as a licenced operator again. Amazing that something as simple as not-for-profit wireless communication deserved a charge in the first instance?
But they decided we all share the air.

Pollution tax, I'm all for that one

I passed the RA exam but never used it other things needed my money at the time other than wireless equipment got a beam rotator here though if anyone wants one

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I passed the RA exam but never used it other things needed my money at the time other than wireless equipment got a beam rotator here though if anyone wants one

I have about 5 or 6 of everything
Thanks to the old boys buying anything they could thru the farm "to save the tax-man getting his theiving mitts on it"
I homebrewed a SSB transceiver which is about all I have set up.
Solar flares have 80M fudgeed at the moment anyway.

 

[cudota]

what a refreshing post, sadly i can only like it once.
hopefully after subs alter post 2020 the industry will open up to allow more with your type of thinking. If subs have done anything it appears to have allowed "certain" types of farmer to take the dole chq and STILL complain about there lot.

lazy

A pity there wasn't a lot more lazy farmers end product price would be higher

 

[exmoor dave]

None so blind.... as the saying goes...

I love the fact that NZ is almost always used as the depths of gloom, doom, and despair, like we're one bad year away from collectively slashing our wrists... based on what exactly, I have no idea! But it's the same poor welfare standards harp on every pro-sub thread since I've been reading TFF.... I simply conclude that it's just lashing out due to fear of change.

Pete please don't think we're all like this over here,

Plenty of us genuinely excited about implementing new tech, learning new (or new to us) methods- more intensive rotational grazing for sheep being a prime example,
Changing/ improving breeds etc etc.
In general progressing our businesses.

I spent abit of money on a very fancy sheep handler a couple years ago, I thought folk would think I was mad, but instead I'm often asked if I can show folk it and my opinion of it, so people aren't just sitting on their laurals as some moaner posters on here would suggest, they are looking at what others are doing and learning.

I'm in discussion group of like minded exmoor farmers, very very rare for the mood to be poor or moaning, questions are always flowing for hosts, discussion is always lively.
You never hear "destruction of a industry" being talked about

I also chair a hill farmer network, we host all manner of events and training, always with excellent turn out- folk want to learn!

I'm particularly pleased at how our "next generation" group is going, 4 meets in, including to my ropey place we're getting over 20 young folk (different 20 each time!) to each visit,
& I don't mean "farming young" i.e. Under 50 , I mean under 25's, which if you believed the doom mongers on here, that age group doesn't even exist
They genuinely want to farm and obviously see a future, many will no doubt do a stint in nz which I'm sure will only build on their keenness.


Unfortunately threads like this often get really quite depressing, but the funny thing is that I can guarantee that you won't find the likes of the worse doom monger moaners on this thread at events like I've spoken about above. Which says alot really, they'll shout on here about how awful things will be, but beyond the keyboard they do nothing to either improve their own lot or the industry as a whole.
Easier to moan I spose

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Pete please don't think we're all like this over here,

Plenty of us genuinely excited about implementing new tech, learning new (or new to us) methods- more intensive rotational grazing for sheep being a prime example,
Changing/ improving breeds etc etc.
In general progressing our businesses.

I spent abit of money on a very fancy sheep handler a couple years ago, I thought folk would think I was mad, but instead I'm often asked if I can show folk it and my opinion of it, so people aren't just sitting on their laurals as some moaner posters on here would suggest, they are looking at what others are doing and learning.

I'm in discussion group of like minded exmoor farmers, very very rare for the mood to be poor or moaning, questions are always flowing for hosts, discussion is always lively.
You never hear "destruction of a industry" being talked about

I also chair a hill farmer network, we host all manner of events and training, always with excellent turn out- folk want to learn!

I'm particularly pleased at how our "next generation" group is going, 4 meets in, including to my ropey place we're getting over 20 young folk (different 20 each time!) to each visit,
& I don't mean "farming young" i.e. Under 50 , I mean under 25's, which if you believed the doom mongers on here, that age group doesn't even exist
They genuinely want to farm and obviously see a future, many will no doubt do a stint in nz which I'm sure will only build on their keenness.


Unfortunately threads like this often get really quite depressing, but the funny thing is that I can guarantee that you won't find the likes of the worse doom monger moaners on this thread at events like I've spoken about above. Which says alot really, they'll shout on here about how awful things will be, but beyond the keyboard they do nothing to either improve their own lot or the industry as a whole.
Easier to moan I spose

I always tend to lean more towards the solutions side of things than the problems.
As a direct result, I do tend to trivialise what are major issues.. because I see the major opportunities these issues bring along.

GUTH is too right, many wouldn't be able to make the necessary changes to take any advantage and will do it very hard, indeed- especially if in sizeable debt at the wrong time.
The supply chain, especially, won't be having Friday drinks.
But poor old Donny McSlippers takes the hardest hit. Fair play he hung onto it, now it could be time for him to get on and sell.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction- this is inevitable and the unwanted part of the whole agricultural industry protection topic, most topics involving broad-spectrum 'band-aids' really... it hurts when you have to rip it off. Because of the equal and opposite reaction part, all the costs get too high.
The worms soon adapt around wormers, the flu changes, the blackgrass got smart to Roundup etc etc - everything fights back.
Costs always try to sneak up if there's a whiff of cash. And they have done.


No, despite what I post, I have a pretty fair idea what goes on around the planet I don't need to see end of year financials to know there's some pretty canny farmers about.
And also, an obesity epidemic.... if we all grew sugar, there'd be money in it?

 

[Bossfarmer]

I have no agenda I can assure you, nor am I looking to see anything destroyed, much less farming.

But you are here trying to tell me the world will end if subsidies go yet we just saw a milk price drop of over 10 pence per litre, which is ten times as serious in anyone's book. And the world did not end.

You also admitted that not all farmers are not using SFP to support their businesses.


On another note, can you explain to me why the prices of lamb or beef are so low? I am not familiar with those sectors I am afraid.

we just saw a milk price drop of over 10 pence per litre

surely this is quite a foolish comparison to subs as the price is back up at 30ppl and dairy farmers are paying off the overdraft from the bad 18 months.....if subs go theyre gone for good selling up will be the only way to clear any debt

 

[Bossfarmer]

Guth,
I'll make this as simple as I can.
You present a lamb at market. You have a choice to sell or take it home. From this point no body cares about GUTH.
The buyer then sells the lamb to the processor &/or retailer who pays most for it. They too have a choice who to sell to, but it will be the best price/most sure market.
The retailer then sells it to the end consumer.
If the end consumer 'demands' a specific Welsh utopia grazing platform for the chop on their plate, the retailer will provide that at a premium in price. Niche market.
If not it just gets sold with the other stuff (NZ, Aus, Timbucktoo). You can stick a RT logo on but it probably won't help sell it (they have market reseach folks to tell them about this).
If the large % of end consumers don't give a hoot, then they will stick the Timbucktoo or wherever stuff, which will likely be as tasty anyway, on the shelf and it will be the price what sells for the same product.
It's economics.
You only get a chance to determine the price if they want it more than the other stuff because their buyers do. It's called differentiating or upselling your product in the marketplace. Quite a few do it but it takes planning and effort. You see you can alter your offer by distinguishing your product or even selling when others aren't. It's the old supply/demand thing.
If you can't be arsed with all that nonsense then just join the end of the queue with every other generic lamb seller, stop moaning and be grateful the tax payer is bailing you out (for now) of your inefficient and lazy ways of farming because as you say, without subsidy you couldn't compete.
Sounds like you'd want a 10m start in a 50m foot race or it would be unfair just because you live where you live.

this only works just now as sub means not everyone has to differentiate well all be at that game if subs go and it wont be so niche then will it??

 

[Bossfarmer]

Pete please don't think we're all like this over here,

Plenty of us genuinely excited about implementing new tech, learning new (or new to us) methods- more intensive rotational grazing for sheep being a prime example,
Changing/ improving breeds etc etc.
In general progressing our businesses.

I spent abit of money on a very fancy sheep handler a couple years ago, I thought folk would think I was mad, but instead I'm often asked if I can show folk it and my opinion of it, so people aren't just sitting on their laurals as some moaner posters on here would suggest, they are looking at what others are doing and learning.

I'm in discussion group of like minded exmoor farmers, very very rare for the mood to be poor or moaning, questions are always flowing for hosts, discussion is always lively.
You never hear "destruction of a industry" being talked about

I also chair a hill farmer network, we host all manner of events and training, always with excellent turn out- folk want to learn!

I'm particularly pleased at how our "next generation" group is going, 4 meets in, including to my ropey place we're getting over 20 young folk (different 20 each time!) to each visit,
& I don't mean "farming young" i.e. Under 50 , I mean under 25's, which if you believed the doom mongers on here, that age group doesn't even exist
They genuinely want to farm and obviously see a future, many will no doubt do a stint in nz which I'm sure will only build on their keenness.


Unfortunately threads like this often get really quite depressing, but the funny thing is that I can guarantee that you won't find the likes of the worse doom monger moaners on this thread at events like I've spoken about above. Which says alot really, they'll shout on here about how awful things will be, but beyond the keyboard they do nothing to either improve their own lot or the industry as a whole.
Easier to moan I spose

Plenty of us genuinely excited about implementing new tech, learning new (or new to us) methods- more intensive rotational grazing for sheep being a prime example,
Changing/ improving breeds etc etc.
In general progressing our businesses

why not do this AND get subsidy too?

 

[lazy farmer]

we just saw a milk price drop of over 10 pence per litre

surely this is quite a foolish comparison to subs as the price is back up at 30ppl and dairy farmers are paying off the overdraft from the bad 18 months.....if subs go theyre gone for good selling up will be the only way to clear any debt

it does suggest to me that their business was not producing good returns when the going was good so had no resilience when prices dropped

 

[Bossfarmer]

it does suggest to me that their business was not producing good returns when the going was good so had no resilience when prices dropped

When prices were good most were investing to improve scale/efficiency many have weathered the storm but as previously said they are back up at 30ppl can someone tell me what this equates to in suckler cow/sheep terms?? £2500/ store beast? £200/lamb??

 

[Kiwi Pete]

it does suggest to me that their business was not producing good returns when the going was good so had no resilience when prices dropped

It also suggests that milk supply and demand are not linked closely enough.

Why is the need for a better co-operative model not really necessary, just yet?
Because it's cheaper to distract the producers out of such rebellious notions with an extra little handout on the side.... or did I imagine that that's what happened?

 

[Err0l]

When prices were good most were investing to improve scale/efficiency many have weathered the storm but as previously said they are back up at 30ppl can someone tell me what this equates to in suckler cow/sheep terms?? £2500/ store beast? £200/lamb??

30ppl is the equivalent of a master key to the royal mint, basically unlimited money no matter how you run the business. At this rate the average dairy farm will grow to 1 million cows by the middle of next month... unless the subs go of course.

 

[turbo]

It would be 2 because they would rather let it go to rack and ruin then give it away for nothing out of principal!

What would happen I think is a lot of land would come onto the market quite quickly if 2 happens and the price of land will crash.

Good then us farmers stand a chance of buying some

 

[ollie989898]

Land prices will fall because there is no subsidy on it?

I would not count on that myself.

 

[ollie989898]

we just saw a milk price drop of over 10 pence per litre

surely this is quite a foolish comparison to subs as the price is back up at 30ppl and dairy farmers are paying off the overdraft from the bad 18 months.....if subs go theyre gone for good selling up will be the only way to clear any debt

I don't quite understand your meaning here.

I suspect some people were making a loss when milk was 18ppl. How much of a loss per litre only they could tell you.

However, at near 30ppl (and more for the cheese boys on their bonuses), they are making a larger profit, and so are able to offset the difficulties they had when the price was rock bottom.

If you cannot make a profit at 30ppl I am unable to advise what you might do, because I have had several people tell me that they can make a handsome profit at this figure, and they do this whilst shaping their business to survive the next downturn.