Are we mad thinking about running a wagon?

[Jetemp]

as the title suggest are we mad??

I understand the legalities of running a wagon and fulfill all requirements so don't need to go there!

We farm 3500 ish acres spread across 30 miles, we bring all of our produce to our own central grain store and we run a chaser bin, we have hired wagons in on an as and when required basis so understand about loading them etc etc.
We also dry and store grain commercially so could pick haulage up on that. Along with moving 4000 tonne of grain to other sites after it's been through the one central dryer.
I am looking at hiring a tractor unit and trailer over 'harvest', as it stands at the moment I have been quoted £450 /week for a year old 450hp tractor unit and 225 /week for the trailer. This is much cheaper physical cost than hiring a 200hp+ tractor and an 18 tonne trailer over the same period and also legal.
I would need 2 drivers but that wouldn't necessarily put my lab our cost up per unit moved.

I am thinking about hiring for the 10 weeks over harvest this year but if that goes well possibly look at buying or own. We obviously have the stores to empty (approx 14000 tonne) through the rest of the year and we haul a lot of our own produce into a local mill with tractors and trailers whilst this is not breaking egg with sticks financially it's keeping staff employed so that there available when we have peek workloads.

So anybody with experience think I'm mad?
James

 

[ollandroverman]

I would look at 8 wheelers rather than artics. They carry 20 tons, are much safer to tip, Less likely to get them selves stuck on a bit of grass, there is only one MOT per unit, and they require one tier less drivers license so much cheaper if you are putting your own men through the test.

 

[wasted years]

Fastrac on red diesel be much different?

 

[Mursal]

Contract hire with all costs locked in, but you might be to small for them to quote, click
How much are you paying for transport at present and is it reliable?
But one wagon isn't going to break the bank, with the tonnage/figures quoted.

 

[james ds]

Two big tillage farms near here have arctics now and would not go back to any other way , they always seem to keep them busy doing other work like drawing fertiliser , straw , they have a low loader to move machinery quicker , I've seen it going with a half load of big bags of fert with the tractor spreader up on it as well , I'd say with the amount of land you have it will never be idle , so buy one dont waste money on hire.

 

[Strawgalore]

I hope your going to pay the driver plenty!

 

[Jetemp]

@Strawgalore it was your post that made me question it!! Drivers will be getting paid £12+, I reckon a good driver (one is already employed by us) is the difference between it running smoothly for us and not being viable

@Mursal the tractors units we hired in last year opened our eyes a little bit, they were far cheaper than our current set up of fastracs and big trailers. We wouldn't get rid of them completely, we had up two hired in at any one time. Biggest problem we found was that the drivers weren't necassarilly that keen on our working pattern, as in they liked to be out running early in a morning so that they could get done, we weren't combining till 10ish so didn't really want them doing something else before they came to us. Reason to run our own, we are in full control of at least one vehicle!.

@wasted years we have 2 fastracs already, fuel consumption is a terrifying 3.8mpg when hauling 18-20 tonne. Even if an artic wagon is doing the same per mile at least you're carrying half as much again which will probably bring the financials of field to somewhere near the same level.

@ollandroverman not sure an 8 wheeler wouldn't loose a little bit of flexibility, we already have a chaser bin so an artic could always be filled on hard standing. An artic would mean we could get involved with bringing liquid feet back into our farms etc.

I reckon it's got to be worth a look/go at, it would mean that we could hire in a least one less tractor so won't coast us any more cash in real terms

James

 

[Flat 10]

No.

 

[The Son]

I was in a similar position to you a few years ago.

I took a contract to take 4000t of product over 3 months, sept, oct, nov,, from a processor 40 miles away, I tried a few locals, but none keen as the job would tie up three trailers at their busiest time of year, and I also wanted to provide a good level of service to the customer as the contract is important to my business.

I ended up going and buying a tractor unit for £7500, and two trailers for £14k, and managed, adding another trailer last year which made the job easier, tractor unit will be updated this year. It has not been plane sailing (I have been towed home twice!) but most importantly I have kept a 100% service level with my customer.

I have found that running HGV's is not as bad as I expected, the kit is cheap compared to Ag kit, and I have a very good local service company close by who keep me compliant with 6 weeklies etc. It is also much cheaper than running a tractor and trailer, so much so that I am using the lorry more and more for moving silage and muck between farms.

My fist purchases were a bit rushed and probably not the best, but they got me through, I would say go for it, £20k should get you a decent unit and trailer for this season, would you be able to put one of your existing workforce through the test?

 

[Jetemp]

@The Son yeh both myself and another colleague have c&e entilement, I look at the current cost of a 230 hp fastracs and big Bailey trailer (which we have sat in our yard), which all we really use for is grain haulage, and, not that I'm wanting to go out and buy new kit but compare it against a new Scania and fruehauf trailer combination and reckon I'd have less capital tied up in the artic.
Financially it doesn't matter wether it has Scania or jcb on the front of when it's not working it ain't earning!, the artic though if we wanted opens up more work that isn't necassarilly tied to the seasons of agriculture.

James

 

[Spud]

Crack on James, not sure where in North Yorkshire you are, but theres plenty of work about. 29t @ 6mpg @ £4.10/gal v's [email protected] @ £1.80/gal. Over a 30mile run, the Fastrac would cost 79p/t in fuel, the wagon, 70p/t. Thats just one 30mile run. Over 14000t thats going to add up, just in fuel, let alone time. Assuming the same time per trip (wagon likely to be a bit quicker, but lets keep it simple) the truck will move 50% more grain in a day than the tractor, so will cost less in labour too.

A 500hp wagon new is similar money to a 200hp tractor, and can earn brass 24/7 if need be. Much more cost effective than a tractor!

We run 7 artics, mostly on grain. In your shoes, I think I'd be buying a £20k tractor unit and two £10k trailers for a start. Two cheaper trailers rather than one newer, dearer one will give much more flexibility - for instance it gives the chaser man somewhere to tip in the absence of concrete while the other trailer is tipping, and avoids the wagon waiting for a second chaser full.
Wheels turning = earning.

 

[Derky]

Your biggest bug bear will be drivers, getting reliable and keen ones. There is work there but the rates have come back 30% since fuel has dropped. Key thing is clear paperwork etc for your maintenance when its being done. Unit wise, we like Volvo and have stuck with Fruehauf trailers.

 

[JP1]

I wrote my college thesis 30+ years ago entitled The Value Of The Farm Lorry

I'd say own account , being in control of your own destiny in your farming operations, yes. Haulage; if you enjoy the work, it would do OK and probably today (as opposed to any time in the last 30 years) be equal or only slightly higher risk than your farming.

Very little opportunity to "sweat" assets as in farmers going contracting

Good luck

 

[roscoe erf]

I would look at 8 wheelers rather than artics. They carry 20 tons, are much safer to tip, Less likely to get them selves stuck on a bit of grass, there is only one MOT per unit, and they require one tier less drivers license so much cheaper if you are putting your own men through the test.

with a tractor unit much more versatile you could do traction work with it in the quite times 8 wheel tipper one trick pony

 

[Flat 10]

@Jetemp you have clearly researched this carefully and know your stuff- its a no brainer in your case, crack on.

 

[Jetemp]

@Flat 10 I have put a lot of thought into it but @Strawgalore staffing problems made me question if it would be right long term.
O license application going in the post!

 

[TripleSix]

Trailers are cheap to buy used.

Artic units are very cheap to hire compared to a tractor!

 

[Yorkshire lad]

Give David Taylor ar Huton xxxxxxxxx D G Tayloy commercial vehicles 01377 270815 a ring he always has a selection of new and used Units and bulkers to choose from
He does short term hire ,contract hire as well as a direct sale ,and is good to deal with

 

[Jetemp]

Will do I had a quick look on there web site, didn't realise that they were into short term hire!
Thanks for all the replies

 

[Flat 10]

@Flat 10 I have put a lot og thought into it but @Strawgalore staffing problems made me question if it would be right long term.
O license application going in the post!

Full or restricted O license application. Guess you already have a restricted one?