Arla marketing genius!

[Farmer1001]

And this, my friend, is exactly the point of Big Milk. Under 5s are recommended vitamin supplements and whole milk. OR you can buy the two combined in Big Milk for convenience.

Nothing to do with iodine in organic milk. Nothing to do with sitting in the sun for vitamin D. Just a specific product aimed at a specific market.

A very good thread descended into irrelevant oneupmanship that benefits no one, but thankfully rescued at the death by @gremlinatrix .

 

[Farmer1001]

So I have checked with the boss, who is a food scientist, registered nutritionist and lecturer in nutrition. The information has been reviewed and revised in the last few years from the previous advice.

1. 75% of UK population is at least partially deficient in Vit D, 40% significantly deficient in winter.
2. There is not enough sunlight in the northern half of UK to synthsise enough Vit D.
3. In the southern half it is only possible to synthsise enough from May to Sept.
4. A significant proportion of the UK population with darker skin have significantly less ability to synthsise Vit D.
5. Therefore supplementation is required for most of UK population.

If you want full info:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...e/537616/SACN_Vitamin_D_and_Health_report.pdf

And Arla capitalised whilst the others argued.

 

[Sid]

All because i asked if milks vitamin d levels has changed which still hasn't been answered.

So I have checked with the boss, who is a food scientist, registered nutritionist and lecturer in nutrition. The information has been reviewed and revised in the last few years from the previous advice.

1. 75% of UK population is at least partially deficient in Vit D, 40% significantly deficient in winter.
2. There is not enough sunlight in the northern half of UK to synthsise enough Vit D.
3. In the southern half it is only possible to synthsise enough from May to Sept.
4. A significant proportion of the UK population with darker skin have significantly less ability to synthsise Vit D.
5. Therefore supplementation is required for most of UK population.

If you want full info:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...e/537616/SACN_Vitamin_D_and_Health_report.pdf

Until the official recommendations change. Like the burnt toast bacon etc advice which was ridiculed by farmers and the public alike.
The report says "Data are insufficient to set RNIs for infants and children aged under 4y" so they set a guesstimate. Which of course is correct until its proven incorrect by scientific evidence which changes all the time.

 

[frederick]

All because i asked if milks vitamin d levels has changed which still hasn't been answered.

Until the official recommendations change. Like the burnt toast bacon etc advice which was ridiculed by farmers and the public alike.
The report says "Data are insufficient to set RNIs for infants and children aged under 4y" so they set a guesstimate. Which of course is correct until its proven incorrect by scientific evidence which changes all the time.

So are you arguing its wrong for an r and d department to come up with the idea of fortifying milk for children and putting vitamin d in milk for adults to help people meet government reccomended intakes is a bad idea because the reccomendations might change.

Whereas the real world has just had a press cycle with scientific research that extra vitamin d reduces your risk of cold and flu.

Due to active r and d (and probably luck) that product is already on asdas shelf and i expect the other supermarkets are now after it. This will increase milk income demand and value. Which is good for all farmers.

But you would rather it was ignored and the bread industry took it up and benefited the cereal man.

 

[Headless chicken]

I sort of agree with you here @Sid and maybe your just too honest? But marketing is simple. Put people in a position where they require the product you sell. You then get into how do I make people think they want it/need it? You play on their loved ones. There is no sane parent in this world that would deprive their child of something that is required for their health and well being so people will buy it.
But here comes imo what the really super important bit

You have now got a consumer paying double for the price of milk on their shelves so little Jonny can have it forified with vitamins. So for 4 years little Jonny's mum has spent extra on her milk. Does she then just say well I can't afford it anymore and milk will have to be cheaper? Or has she spent the last 4 years making a bottle of milk selling at £2.25 part of her normal weekly shop? So now the supermarkets argument that people require cheap milk to be able to live deserve it goes out the window.
You've now just manipulated the market to add value to your milk.

Now that imo is shear brilliance

 

[Sid]

Ok turn this around. How does the average person know if they need addtional vitamins or minerals? They don't. They are taking a sometimes but more than likey educated guess. Over dosing in some vitamins and minerals can be as bad as being short.
A balanced varied diet is the key to this.
And of course some fresh air and sunlight.
Every action has a reaction , keeping children out of the sun and using factor 50 has probably caused a shortage of vitamin d in their system.

 

[Sid]

So are you arguing its wrong for an r and d department to come up with the idea of fortifying milk for children and putting vitamin d in milk for adults to help people meet government reccomended intakes is a bad idea because the reccomendations might change.

Whereas the real world has just had a press cycle with scientific research that extra vitamin d reduces your risk of cold and flu.

Due to active r and d (and probably luck) that product is already on asdas shelf and i expect the other supermarkets are now after it. This will increase milk income demand and value. Which is good for all farmers.

But you would rather it was ignored and the bread industry took it up and benefited the cereal man.

The question i as at the very beginning was has milk got less vitamin d than x years ago. Try asking your r and d that one.

 

[bar718]

I sort of agree with you here @Sid and maybe your just too honest? But marketing is simple. Put people in a position where they require the product you sell. You then get into how do I make people think they want it/need it? You play on their loved ones. There is no sane parent in this world that would deprive their child of something that is required for their health and well being so people will buy it.
But here comes imo what the really super important bit

You have now got a consumer paying double for the price of milk on their shelves so little Jonny can have it forified with vitamins. So for 4 years little Jonny's mum has spent extra on her milk. Does she then just say well I can't afford it anymore and milk will have to be cheaper? Or has she spent the last 4 years making a bottle of milk selling at £2.25 part of her normal weekly shop? So now the supermarkets argument that people require cheap milk to be able to live deserve it goes out the window.
You've now just manipulated the market to add value to your milk.

Now that imo is cheer brilliance

To take your point further , if we can get parents buying milk to feed little Jonny his extra vitamins , we are actually setting his lifestyle to include dairy products in his diet when he gets older so hopefully helping to start and try to reverse the falling consumption of dairy products in modern western diets . If we can do that then we all win eventually, regardless of who you supply .

 

[bar718]

Ok turn this around. How does the average person know if they need addtional vitamins or minerals? They don't. They are taking a sometimes but more than likey educated guess. Over dosing in some vitamins and minerals can be as bad as being short.
A balanced varied diet is the key to this.
And of course some fresh air and sunlight.
Every action has a reaction , keeping children out of the sun and using factor 50 has probably caused a shortage of vitamin d in their system.

When you are in Birmingham next week @Sid I would suggest that instead of heading to the nearest bar it may be a worth you getting a taxi and asking him to take you around the big housing estates that are in and around Birmingham or any other big areas of population for that matter . Then when you are in those areas stop and get out and go for a walk , all the time asking yourself whether you would want your young child playing outside unattended in those areas . I suspect you will say no and if you do then think yourself lucky at where you live but also think that these are our customers and target markets and if we can provide a product that they want or persuade them that they need it then they will buy it .
Neglect your customers at your peril as someone else will always be happy to look after them for you .

 

[Sid]

When you are in Birmingham next week @Sid I would suggest that instead of heading to the nearest bar it may be a worth you getting a taxi and asking him to take you around the big housing estates that are in and around Birmingham or any other big areas of population for that matter . Then when you are in those areas stop and get out and go for a walk , all the time asking yourself whether you would want your young child playing outside unattended in those areas . I suspect you will say no and if you do then think yourself lucky at where you live but also think that these are our customers and target markets and if we can provide a product that they want or persuade them that they need it then they will buy it .
Neglect your customers at your peril as someone else will always be happy to look after them for you .

The areas where you wouldn't let your children play outside you speak of basic food is all they buy.
They don't even care if a cow goes outside let alone is organic. They want cheap.
No child should be left unattended playing outside under the big milk target age of 4. So i fail to see your point?

 

[Cows 'n grass]

Ok turn this around. How does the average person know if they need addtional vitamins or minerals? They don't. They are taking a sometimes but more than likey educated guess. Over dosing in some vitamins and minerals can be as bad as being short.
A balanced varied diet is the key to this.
And of course some fresh air and sunlight.
Every action has a reaction , keeping children out of the sun and using factor 50 has probably caused a shortage of vitamin d in their system.

I don't know whether milk has changed much in the past 40 years but that's not the point of Big milk. Milk is not a brilliant source of vitamin D and never had been. Supplementation of vitamin D is recommended for children and is well proven to reduce rickets. Big milk is an easy way of getting vitamins D, A and iron into children.

Official line from the NHS.

'In the UK, cows' milk is generally not a good source of vitamin D because it isn't fortified, as it is in some other countries.'

You have to massively overdose most minerals to cause and harm.

Do you feed minerals to your cows, do you know that every one requires them? Or is it just an educated guess?

 

[frederick]

The areas where you wouldn't let your children play outside you speak of basic food is all they buy.
They don't even care if a cow goes outside let alone is organic. They want cheap.
No child should be left unattended playing outside under the big milk target age of 4. So i fail to see your point?

Do you think fortifying milk to meet public demand and improve the return to dairy farmers is a good or bad idea?

 

[Fergieman]

I don't know whether milk has changed much in the past 40 years but that's not the point of Big milk. Milk is not a brilliant source of vitamin D and never had been. Supplementation of vitamin D is recommended for children and is well proven to reduce rickets. Big milk is an easy way of getting vitamins D, A and iron into children.

Official line from the NHS.

'In the UK, cows' milk is generally not a good source of vitamin D because it isn't fortified, as it is in some other countries.'

You have to massively overdose most minerals to cause and harm.

Do you feed minerals to your cows, do you know that every one requires them? Or is it just an educated guess?

Of course sid knows the individual mineral needs of each of his cows, you wouldn't expect anything less!

 

[Sid]

I don't know whether milk has changed much in the past 40 years but that's not the point of Big milk. Milk is not a brilliant source of vitamin D and never had been. Supplementation of vitamin D is recommended for children and is well proven to reduce rickets. Big milk is an easy way of getting vitamins D, A and iron into children.

Official line from the NHS.

'In the UK, cows' milk is generally not a good source of vitamin D because it isn't fortified, as it is in some other countries.'

You have to massively overdose most minerals to cause and harm.

Do you feed minerals to your cows, do you know that every one requires them? Or is it just an educated guess?

But yogurt and butter is.
Correct some minerals you do have to massively over dose others you don't. Feed some copper to a texel sheep and see what happens. Vitamin d locks up calcium causing issues i believe.
My cows get fed as per the bloods and milk testing done on a herd basis. A childs life is slightly different to a cows.
I wouldn't agree with blanket fortifying of anything with any vitamins tbh

 

[Cows 'n grass]

But yogurt and butter is.
Correct some minerals you do have to massively over dose others you don't. Feed some copper to a texel sheep and see what happens. Vitamin d locks up calcium causing issues i believe.
My cows get fed as per the bloods and milk testing done on a herd basis. A childs life is slightly different to a cows.
I wouldn't agree with blanket fortifying of anything with any vitamins tbh

But we're not talking about yogurt or butter here.

So you'd suggest all children should be regularly blood sampled to check vitamin and mineral levels? Have you had yours done?

Unfortunately these tend to be such a brief snapshot that they are hideously inaccurate so it's easier for the NHS recommendations tend to be on a 'herd' basis.

 

[frederick]

But yogurt and butter is.
Correct some minerals you do have to massively over dose others you don't. Feed some copper to a texel sheep and see what happens. Vitamin d locks up calcium causing issues i believe.
My cows get fed as per the bloods and milk testing done on a herd basis. A childs life is slightly different to a cows.
I wouldn't agree with blanket fortifying of anything with any vitamins tbh

So your telling me kellogs are wrong to fortify all their cereals with vitamin d to give parents another reason to trust their cereal.

 

[Sid]

Do you think fortifying milk to meet public demand and improve the return to dairy farmers is a good or bad idea?

If it is a health issue and there scientific reason them yes. But be aware that scientists chsnge their minds way too often. And the resulting changes come back to affect industries.

 

[cornishfarmer]

So if cows are kept in all year, can they be short in vitamin D? Or are the spring calvers putting factor 50 on cows so the don't get too much?!!!!!! I'm confused is is up to OMACO OR ARLA R and D department for find out the answer

 

[Sid]

So your telling me kellogs are wrong to fortify all their cereals with vitamin d to give parents another reason to trust their cereal.

And another dose of vitamin d with the big milk. Is that a double dose?

 

[gremlinatrix]

If it is a health issue and there scientific reason them yes. But be aware that scientists chsnge their minds way too often. And the resulting changes come back to affect industries.

Classic old man rubbish again.

If only Arla made MMR vaccines!
What you have just described is the very basis of anti-intellectualism.
There you go TFF, you're very own Donald Trump. Who needs facts? Who needs "scientists" ey?

Sorry couldn't resist one last challenge to this blowhard nonsense!