Arla

[Sid]

I have never heard any NFU office holder other than yourself publicly offer flippant criticism of other farmers working to represent their fellow farmers . Asking questions is very different matter and when done in a professional and civil manner they are answered especially on here, however what you do is very different and you and everyone who reads this forum knows that .

Well i respectfully suggest you come to the SW and speak to some office holders who are have been very vocal.

There are a lot of farmer boarded companies that haven't asked enough probing questions of management and have been to hell and back or never got back (DFOB).

Savings should always be looked for.

 

[Sid]

Organic farmers can use conventional animals to sell organic milk from after 9 months on a organic farm is the actual fact. .

You have been slagging off RT/ farm assurance left right and centre which is clear for all that reads that thread to see and for a Omsco board member to be doing this is very surprising.

Yes they then become a converted animal. They can never be sold as organic meat.
A non FA animal can become FA meat.
A non org bovine can never become an organic bovine.

Not slagging off but stating the facts. Are those facts correct?

 

[Sid]

Even more surprising that a ex NFU dairy council member would be so anti one of the largest milk buyers in the UK.

Whats this dairy council you speak of? Never been on a council you must be confusing it with something else.

Know of a few various member of various boards that are very vocal on various companies, coops, and assurance schemes in public.

 

[bar718]

Well i respectfully suggest you come to the SW and speak to some office holders who are have been very vocal.

There are a lot of farmer boarded companies that haven't asked enough probing questions of management and have been to hell and back or never got back (DFOB).

Savings should always be looked for.

You make a valid point here but miss, quite conveniently, the bit about the farmer boards asking questions about there own companies.
I didn’t realise that in your job as a board member of omsco it is your duty to ask questions of other companies and openly criticise them, or is that the point here we are all missing and that is you think your best line of defence of omsco is to openly attack your competitors.

 

[stablegirl]

I think arguing with Sid is like arguing with a vegan.

His mind is made up and having the discussion with him only provides a platform for him to preach from.

 

[Sid]

Just out of interest, what has prompted Arla to identify €400 million worth of savings (annual) now and not before? FW quote th following "Cutbacks would likely affect Arla employees across production, products, procurement and marketing departments and job losses are expected."
If this is, as reported, ongoing savings to be identified by 2020 then it appears Arla have either been wasteful, complacent or simply living off the fat that has now disappeared. On the bright side, the likes of Meadow would find those savings through milk price cuts.

You make a valid point here but miss, quite conveniently, the bit about the farmer boards asking questions about there own companies.
I didn’t realise that in your job as a board member of omsco it is your duty to ask questions of other companies and openly criticise them, or is that the point here we are all missing and that is you think your best line of defence of omsco is to openly attack your competitors.

Its not just me that is asking the questions ot seems.
I wasn't attacking i was asking who looked and found the possible savings.
Management
BOR
Reps

If Arla can make savings and Muller always match their pricing then they must have some way of making savings along with FC?

 

[bar718]

I think arguing with Sid is like arguing with a vegan.

His mind is made up and having the discussion with him only provides a platform for him to preach from.

I am afraid you are right. We don’t see him criticising other dairy companies who are doing the exact same things as Arla is doing with calcium, maybe even omsco could do the same and make savings.

 

[dairyrow]

Well if somebody like did is getting slated and bullied by arla reps. How do you feel normal members reading these posts feel or even going to ask questions. When you all act like this. Nobody has cleared up the emerald debt thing. Part of that problem iis poor governance and greed by the elected representatives. Even one now is leaving to join muller. Where were the council at the time asking questions about renumeration, bonuses and corporate hospitality. Apparently Jonathon ovens was even playing an active role in the boardroom. We've just elected another one who has been embroiled in this.
If we can make savings of that magnitude why hasn't it been done sooner? Why has it taken til brexit to do?
After the balls up on the farmer side of the transport initiative? Do you really believe it's going to be handled in good way?
Are the savings to improve price of just let thethem be able to cut prices? So we can compete in a very competitive dairy market globally?

On a separate note why doesn't people answer the questions properly on the arla members forum? If you want it to work and get people involved for Christ said make it relevant. Might save a lot of these conversations on this forum.

 

[Chips]

If Arla can make savings and Muller always match their pricing then they must have some way of making savings along with FC?

Given that Arla's reason dropping the milk price so hard are due to reason's that wouldn't effect a UK only milk pool currently , wouldn't your time representing NFU members be better spent asking as to why Muller have matched Arla's price here in the UK when they have a dedicated UK pool where the German market and weak currency don't effect them like this ?
To be honest I think that is a matter purely for the Muller Farmers and I have no doubt their farmer reps are asking these questions and don't feel any need to go around slating them in public for what those fellow farmers do or don't do , I am just curious as to why if you say you ask these questions in a flippant derogatory manner in the interests of your NFU members (although GUTH seems to say you no longer have this role ) as to why you only ever single out one company ?

 

[Farmer1001]

@dairyrow does raise a valid point, hardened Arla farners are extremely protective of the CooP and lord help anyone in Arla who dare speak out of line, I experienced this first hand in a meeting in Cornwall and it knocked me sideways. Ultimately British dairy is as divided as it could ever be and this plays massively into the hands of those who profit from it. I still choose Anchor butter though (back on thread).

 

[Alfred]

Well if somebody like did is getting slated and bullied by arla reps. How do you feel normal members reading these posts feel or even going to ask questions. When you all act like this. Nobody has cleared up the emerald debt thing. Part of that problem iis poor governance and greed by the elected representatives. Even one now is leaving to join muller. Where were the council at the time asking questions about renumeration, bonuses and corporate hospitality. Apparently Jonathon ovens was even playing an active role in the boardroom. We've just elected another one who has been embroiled in this.
If we can make savings of that magnitude why hasn't it been done sooner? Why has it taken til brexit to do?
After the balls up on the farmer side of the transport initiative? Do you really believe it's going to be handled in good way?
Are the savings to improve price of just let thethem be able to cut prices? So we can compete in a very competitive dairy market globally?

On a separate note why doesn't people answer the questions properly on the arla members forum? If you want it to work and get people involved for Christ said make it relevant. Might save a lot of these conversations on this forum.

Very well said and I completely agree!

 

[peclova]

Very well said and I completely agree!

+1

But, to be fair, I do believe an awful lot of BOD time will have been expended on getting "One Arla" done. Hopefully, now this is coming to a conclusion they will have more time to turn their attentions to the way the business is being run. Hence "Calcium" and the E400m savings.

 

[farmer on a bike]

+1

But, to be fair, I do believe an awful lot of BOD time will have been expended on getting "One Arla" done. Hopefully, now this is coming to a conclusion they will have more time to turn their attentions to the way the business is being run. Hence "Calcium" and the E400m savings.

Some of this is around changes in management technique. If you go back 10 years you made savings in a large organisation by just cutting budgets and no one was trying to predict the conseuences. It often encouraged departments that were under budget to make sure they spent their budget so it was not reduced the following year. My wife saw this first hand while working in unilever. Lean management was a revolution in thinking which changed the management and cost control to be in a sense much more in line with how small businesses like farming sole traders manage. A sole trader has his go her on the pulse of his whole business and can see where waste is. Lean enables a larger business to see this as well. Now strategies like Calcium are another step on, this has only started in the last year or two. It is more akin to the top AYR calving farmer looking at his business having got it running right at the top level in the top 5% and asking have I got the whole structure right. Could I make more money changing to a New Zealand style spring calving system? This questioning of the way the business is run is more broken down than this in a large business. It is like looking at milk collection, traditionally you look to cut out 1 lorry or do a better deal on fuel etc etc. Instead you start right at the basics and come up with things like larger outlets saving many thousands of hours across the whole collection.

 

[Only]

a lot of farmers around here leaving arla and going to muller -a lot

 

[bar718]

If members go onto the Arla website and read the articles about calcium and the explanation about what it entails then they would see it’s a totally different way to look at the business.
As for @dairyrow asking how members feel about how questions are answered on here, I would ask is it members who are asking the questions or is it a director of another asking the questions. Big difference.

 

[Chips]

Well if somebody like did is getting slated and bullied by arla reps. How do you feel normal members reading these posts feel or even going to ask questions. When you all act like this. Nobody has cleared up the emerald debt thing. Part of that problem iis poor governance and greed by the elected representatives. Even one now is leaving to join muller. Where were the council at the time asking questions about renumeration, bonuses and corporate hospitality. Apparently Jonathon ovens was even playing an active role in the boardroom. We've just elected another one who has been embroiled in this.
If we can make savings of that magnitude why hasn't it been done sooner? Why has it taken til brexit to do?
After the balls up on the farmer side of the transport initiative? Do you really believe it's going to be handled in good way?
Are the savings to improve price of just let thethem be able to cut prices? So we can compete in a very competitive dairy market globally?

On a separate note why doesn't people answer the questions properly on the arla members forum? If you want it to work and get people involved for Christ said make it relevant. Might save a lot of these conversations on this forum.

I don't think anyone is bulling Sid just defending fellow farmers from his unfounded attacks , no one has a problem with Questions. I assure all the questions posed on here very much have been put to management and many many more besides , quite why Sid think they wouldn't have been perplexes me .
I'm am genuinely sorry if you feel you cannot ask questions and something we must be aware of. Were you at the meeting on Wednesday ? All the questions posed above were asked by members in the meeting and answered in a very civil and explanatory manor , throughout the meeting more questions were invited from the people presenting and finally at the end from the chair . In addition to this both I and the Chair told the members where to find our phone numbers and that we are always happy to chat or even to call around if you need help with Arla Garden etc , so I felt and certainly hope no one left without feeling they could ask anything they chose .
No questions were received regarding JO, and the matter is still ongoing as I understand it and so it would not be in anyone interests to comment until the matter is resolved .
With regard to the member forum , I think the footfall is too little sometimes for new posts to be spotted , we could do with some kind of alert system like we have on here so that when you log in it highlights if there is a new post , but I think eventually most posts get a reply , it's all a bit new yet and I guess we reps don't know whether it's our place to respond or not in all cases , I'm sure it will evolve over time and improve .
I agree as do most reps that the one transport could have been delivered better as it was rolled out very quickly , while most of it is okay there are certain aspects of it that I and others have challenged and will continue to do so , but it is probably symptomatic of being a very large European wide co-op trying to be as fair an equal as it can to each and every member as it can, and I would hope management will of learned something from how it was rolled out .
Finally as I said , you have my number and I am always happy to chat , I may not be very highly elected and thus privy to all the info but am more than happy to research answers to any unanswered questions you may have and the same goes for any other of our district farmers who may be reading this .

 

[bar718]

I don't think anyone is bulling Sid just defending fellow farmers from his unfounded attacks , no one has a problem with Questions. I assure all the questions posed on here very much have been put to management and many many more besides , quite why Sid think they wouldn't have been perplexes me .
I'm am genuinely sorry if you feel you cannot ask questions and something we must be aware of. Were you at the meeting on Wednesday ? All the questions posed above were asked by members in the meeting and answered in a very civil and explanatory manor , throughout the meeting more questions were invited from the people presenting and finally at the end from the chair . In addition to this both I and the Chair told the members where to find our phone numbers and that we are always happy to chat or even to call around if you need help with Arla Garden etc , so I felt and certainly hope no one left without feeling they could ask anything they chose .
No questions were received regarding JO, and the matter is still ongoing as I understand it and so it would not be in anyone interests to comment until the matter is resolved .
With regard to the member forum , I think the footfall is too little sometimes for new posts to be spotted , we could do with some kind of alert system like we have on here so that when you log in it highlights if there is a new post , but I think eventually most posts get a reply , it's all a bit new yet and I guess we reps don't know whether it's our place to respond or not in all cases , I'm sure it will evolve over time and improve .
I agree as do most reps that the one transport could have been delivered better as it was rolled out very quickly , while most of it is okay there are certain aspects of it that I and others have challenged and will continue to do so , but it is probably symptomatic of being a very large European wide co-op trying to be as fair an equal as it can to each and every member as it can, and I would hope management will of learned something from how it was rolled out .
Finally as I said , you have my number and I am always happy to chat , I may not be very highly elected and thus privy to all the info but am more than happy to research answers to any unanswered questions you may have and the same goes for any other of our district farmers who may be reading this .

I totally agree with everything you have said here but would like to add that no questions have been asked about calcium either on the forum or at the end of any of the pieces about it in “my news” and if any members have any questions about calcium please feel free to ask them there where they will be answered, although maybe not immediately but will eventually be answered in a way that will clear up any doubts about it.

 

[Sid]

I don't think anyone is bulling Sid just defending fellow farmers from his unfounded attacks , no one has a problem with Questions. I assure all the questions posed on here very much have been put to management and many many more besides , quite why Sid think they wouldn't have been perplexes me

Did the members or the board of DFOB query the goings on enough?
We have seen too many failings within the dairy industry where farmers are left out of pocket and without a milk buyer.


The rest of your post is good to hear. Maybe come down to the SW and hear what the ex ML owners are saying as well to get a balanced view from across the country?

 

[Alfred]

+1

But, to be fair, I do believe an awful lot of BOD time will have been expended on getting "One Arla" done. Hopefully, now this is coming to a conclusion they will have more time to turn their attentions to the way the business is being run. Hence "Calcium" and the E400m savings.

Do you really think that "one Arla" will be the magic pill @peclova?
Spin is a marvellous thing! All positives with no negatives for UKAF really ??
It worries me that all this is only being rushed through because of brexit. It's all very reminiscent of the ML and Arla merger argument, all positive and no negatives! Vote for it quick before we lose the chance of a lifetime!
I personally think that it's all grown out of anyone's control really, and glad that I'm out of it.
Arla uk must be hemorrhaging members atm, and I think that this "one Arla" thing could potentially push more out who have little trust left in the co,op.
What do you think @peclova?

 

[Chips]

a lot of farmers around here leaving arla and going to muller -a lot

I fear you are correct , it very disappointing, our average milk price for the past 12mths is still just above Mullers and just over 50% of our members exceed this price even without their 13th payment and individual consolidation , but this doesn't help if you are a low constituent farmer and maybe their resignation is symptomatic of our removal of the liquid contract . Milk markets world wide are moving more and more towards Fat and so it is a difficult circle to square in a co-op that must reward value where value is produced in the interest of fairness and future profitability.
It may be that in a volatile world the opportunity to fix 50% of your price was an incentive , for me however in a volatile world , given the events of recent history an ever green contract would outweigh that .
I have no idea if this is the reasoning behind their leaving as I would not be privy to their constituents but I felt these farms brought a great deal of value to our business through scale and level supply , I will be sorry to see them go and wish them all well for the future.