Arlene Foster

[Hindsight]

There was a commentator many years ago now, who basically stated that SF/IRA have been very successful selling defeat as victory. Not helped by Blair not holding to them to same standard as normal democratic parties.

Speaking as fenman from rural Lincolnshire who has never really gone more than 20 miles from place of birth other than college and a couple of holidays. And never been further west in UK than Liverpool to watch Everton play I always took view the Good Friday agreement was about extracting UK troops out of a civil war situation - very similar to withdrawing from Afghanistan / Cyprus et al situations UK has gotten into over the years, except it just happened to be on UK soil. So do all of you shout me down as I am as say just making a comment as a neutral little Englander. Hey ho. Regards.

 

[Bankville]

Speaking as fenman from rural Lincolnshire who has never really gone more than 20 miles from place of birth other than college and a couple of holidays. And never been further west in UK than Liverpool to watch Everton play I always took view the Good Friday agreement was about extracting UK troops out of a civil war situation - very similar to withdrawing from Afghanistan / Cyprus et al situations UK has gotten into over the years, except it just happened to be on UK soil. So do all of you shout me down as I am as say just making a comment as a neutral little Englander. Hey ho. Regards.

My memory isn't great regarding every detail but the good Friday agreement was more than withdrawalof troops. Ceasefire
Decommissioning arms
Releasing anyone from jail convicted for terrorist offences was a bitter pill for victims families especially as so many didn't get justice to start with.

 

[baabaa]

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...tcher-foster-warns-pm-on-brexit-37415393.html

 

[Ashtree]

Some thoughts strike me about that poll
3. The poll is worded to suggest those in favour of Brexit over the peace process, care nothing for the peace process. This may or may not be the case. Given general unionist disenchantment with the peace process, it's not unsurprising they answered that way, but they may still value it to varying degrees.

Unionist disenchantment with the peace process surely cannot be any greater than nationalist disenchantment with life under unionist governance pre the civil rights marches. It was a very vile and nasty governance which London chose to ignore.
The peace process has actually given nationalists a say in the governance of the place. SOME, on the unionist side still haven’t come to terms with that.

 

[Hindsight]

My memory isn't great regarding every detail but the good Friday agreement was more than withdrawalof troops. Ceasefire
Decommissioning arms
Releasing anyone from jail convicted for terrorist offences was a bitter pill for victims families especially as so many didn't get justice to start with.

Yes it was indeed more than troop withdrawl. I only mentioned that in my post otherwise the post would have droned on. Well I drone on enough in any case. In those distant days in late 1970s my slightly older cousin who I played with as a child joined the Army - East Anglian Regiment if I recall and as a young man - probably only 17 or bit older was in NI on and off for next few years. I can appreciate there are still undercurrents. Hey ho.

 

[nivilla1982]

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/o...rmont-regime-are-hugely-exaggerated-1-8667717
Claims of anti Catholic bias by the old Stormont regime are hugely exaggerated

 

[Hindsight]

Reading The Times it appears the DUP if not entirely in the driving seat this week are certainly sitting in the lap of the driver. When this ship called Brexit set sail on June 24th 2016 who would have though that. Fascinating.

 

[nivilla1982]

I see leading Scottish Conservatives are threatening to resign if any proposed deal, treats NI differently rest of the Kingdom.

 

[Hindsight]

I see leading Scottish Conservatives are threatening to resign if any proposed deal, treats NI differently rest of the Kingdom.

Yes indeed, bizarre old world. Just before the Tory annual jamboree Ms Davison rules herself out of ever being PM yet here she is sort of being PM.

Poor old Mrs May she is a trojan, such stoicism. Cannot decide if Greek Tragedy or Shakespearean history melodrama. Which leads me to those immortal words 'Will no one rid me of this turbulent .................' insert appropriate politician.

I suppose this thread is not eligible for the non Brexit slot as if I recall the DUP is the famers party in NI? So we have a few NI hillbillies driving the UK government. Such fun.

Cheers,

 

[baabaa]

Yes indeed, bizarre old world. Just before the Tory annual jamboree Ms Davison rules herself out of ever being PM yet here she is sort of being PM.

Poor old Mrs May she is a trojan, such stoicism. Cannot decide if Greek Tragedy or Shakespearean history melodrama. Which leads me to those immortal words 'Will no one rid me of this turbulent .................' insert appropriate politician.

I suppose this thread is not eligible for the non Brexit slot as if I recall the DUP is the famers party in NI? So we have a few NI hillbillies driving the UK government. Such fun.

Cheers,

your recall is as accurate as your spelling

 

[Hindsight]

your recall is as accurate as your spelling

Ah yes, I should have put 'is NOW eligible for a non Brexit thread. Hey ho to much haste to check what I have written. Suspect that many a politician this morning is thinking along the same lines. I am disappointed WaltP is not gracing us with his presence as I do seem to recall this fateful day would appear when the agreement was reached last December. He would be in full flow now.

Hey ho.

 

[Honest john]

So the EU won’t agree to a deal with UK because of Irish boarder issue.

Result UK leave with no deal & RoI have to built the hard boarder to protect the single market.

Junker cocks up again.

 

[fudge]

Mmmm let’s blame the foreigners for the UK govt. failings. Wanting to leave the customs union and retain frictionless trade was recognized as as a “have your cake and eat it” fantasy years ago and yet the May cabinet find it impossible to move on from this fantasy. They just need to except the inevitable and remain in the customs union. There is no other “plan”.

 

[The Agrarian]

Yes indeed, bizarre old world. Just before the Tory annual jamboree Ms Davison rules herself out of ever being PM yet here she is sort of being PM.

Poor old Mrs May she is a trojan, such stoicism. Cannot decide if Greek Tragedy or Shakespearean history melodrama. Which leads me to those immortal words 'Will no one rid me of this turbulent .................' insert appropriate politician.

I suppose this thread is not eligible for the non Brexit slot as if I recall the DUP is the famers party in NI? So we have a few NI hillbillies driving the UK government. Such fun.

Cheers,

Isn't the path of democracy quite often not determined by the broad based, but by the marginal swing votes? It once was lib Dems picking up marginal voters that formed a coalition government. This time it's northern ireland voters. Is that not equally valid?

 

[Ashtree]

Isn't the path of democracy quite often not determined by the broad based, but by the marginal swing votes? It once was lib Dems picking up marginal voters that formed a coalition government. This time it's northern ireland voters. Is that not equally valid?

Do you wonder to yourself in quiet moments, where this Brexit deal would be now from a unionist viewpoint, IF, TM had won a majority in the last general election?

It’s pretty clear. London (TM) or any other PM for that matter would have driven a horse and chariot right through your beloved union. Great big border down the Irish Sea.

What does it feel like, to know that you as unionists so desperately want to belong, but old mother GB, really, really, really, wants you to just fudge off ......??

Paisley Snr., was absolutely correct. When it comes to the union, never ever trust London.

 

[The Agrarian]

Of course you would like to have unionists think that they were not wanted by their own, and ready to be carved off at the earliest opportunity. The reality is that Northern Ireland has been a difficult problem for governments of all shades to handle over the last fifty years, not because of those who are British, but because of those who constantly worked to undermine the union, and still do. Remove unionists from the equation, and Northern Ireland is still a problem for the government. Instead remove nationalists and republicans, and you'd find the government would not have too much difficulty. It seems the reputation British people in Northern Ireland is rather tarnished by the actions of the objectionable Irish element, because they are incorrectly lumped together as one problematic grouping. Again, that's the whole idea of the republican strategy. Keep causing trouble and strife for the government and the union until they succumb to the pressure...

Yes, the DUP has not made this process any easier for the PM. But bear in mind that they are only doing what any committed British Citizen in any part of the UK would do - dig their heels in to protect their rights as full citizens. Pretty sure someone as determinedly Irish as you, would do just the same thing in your country.

The mystery is really why men from Lincolnshire can't understand why citizens in another county far away from them should be any less defensive than they would be, if their county was placed in the same situation.

 

[Hindsight]

Of course you would like to have unionists think that they were not wanted by their own, and ready to be carved off at the earliest opportunity. The reality is that Northern Ireland has been a difficult problem for governments of all shades to handle over the last fifty years, not because of those who are British, but because of those who constantly worked to undermine the union, and still do. Remove unionists from the equation, and Northern Ireland is still a problem for the government. Instead remove nationalists and republicans, and you'd find the government would not have too much difficulty. It seems the reputation British people in Northern Ireland is rather tarnished by the actions of the objectionable Irish element, because they are incorrectly lumped together as one problematic grouping. Again, that's the whole idea of the republican strategy. Keep causing trouble and strife for the government and the union until they succumb to the pressure...

Yes, the DUP has not made this process any easier for the PM. But bear in mind that they are only doing what any committed British Citizen in any part of the UK would do - dig their heels in to protect their rights as full citizens. Pretty sure someone as determinedly Irish as you, would do just the same thing in your country.

The mystery is really why men from Lincolnshire can't understand why citizens in another county far away from them should be any less defensive than they would be, if their county was placed in the same situation.

Hi, sorry I had not gotten round to replying to your earlier post #54. Yes, we often see unequal votes in a first past the post system - certain constituencies with a close margin the marginal voters have more effect than say me here where a Conservative always wins the seat.

I have read this post #56 and possibly presume it may be intended for another poster on this thread? As not sure I have queried the points you make.

As far as the last paragraph is concerned I have not said I disagree with the actions of the DUP. Just commenting my amusement. I was just in a semi jocular way musing how the good ship Brexit is having to tack through choppy waters. And the unforeseen underwater hazards it keeps coming across - such as for example the Irish border question among other things. .

I appreciate now that I may well have touched a raw nerve and for that I apologise. But as I find the whole Brexit affair and debacle mildly amusing and do not take it a seriously as others then I may inadvertently tread on toes.

Hey ho. Regards.

 

[The Agrarian]

Yes, most of it is meant for ashtree. Fear not - you touched no nerves that have not been touched before!

As for taking it not too seriously - you may well be quite wise. The one thing that is clear in all of this is that the EU is a club that you can join, but never leave.

 

[nivilla1982]

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/o...e-sort-of-united-approach-to-events-1-8667788
Dire circumstances might soon force unionists into some sort of united approach to events

 

[Muck Spreader]

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/o...e-sort-of-united-approach-to-events-1-8667788
Dire circumstances might soon force unionists into some sort of united approach to events

It's a fair assessment of the situation and the one thing you can be sure of is that the Conservative party will do whatever it takes to ensure it's own survival. Even if that means selling out NI or the whole of the UK, as they will see it as a price worth paying. It's worth remembering that the very fact we are having this discussion is because Cameron for reasons best known to himself, was so frightened of the inroads UKIP was making into his party that he put the prospect of an EU referendum in his manifesto. This, despite the desire for one barely registering any interest with the general population.