Auto Steer justification

[Will 1594]

Blimey, the combine driver can't be up to much!

You all seem to forget to include the time lost waiting for signal, loading ab lines, rebooting, and general buggeration maintaining, servicing, training and operating the tech.

If the combine is a multiple width of the sprayer, it isn't hard keeping it full.

How many actually use the pretty pictures for any quantifiable benefit? (I mean yield maps!)
We used to swap the kit from tractor to combine for harvest before we had a weighbridge, and used to find the maps told you what you expected to see - in dry years, the heavy bits yielded more, and in wet years the reverse was true.

Really spud ,just take steering wheel atu out of spayer tractor into combine , put 2630:in combine plug in ,all fields are in ,boundrys etc ,i have every headland in every field ,with a heading / ab line curve etc , ,even a simple peasant like me makes it work ,and one big reason of having it is to make breaks across field so the wildlife have some where to get away from combine and some fields cannot cut after dark for the wildlife

 

[Spud]

Really spud ,just take steering wheel atu out of spayer tractor into combine , put 2630:in combine plug in ,all fields are in ,boundrys etc ,i have every headland in every field ,with a heading / ab line curve etc , ,even a simple peasant like me makes it work ,and one big reason of having it is to make breaks across field so the wildlife have some where to get away from combine and some fields cannot cut after dark for the wildlife

Can't you follow the tramlines to make breaks, or is that practice just for us peasants who steer manually?
I couldn't be arsed swapping ab lines to do headlands and such messing on, rather just be cutting!

 

[Will 1594]

Can't you follow the tramlines to make breaks, or is that practice just for us peasants who steer manually?
I couldn't be arsed swapping ab lines to do headlands and such messing on, rather just be cutting!

Lol Swap track does it for you , 24 m tramlines 7.5 header , Makes it easy , have to have a bit of easy going , spend enough time in the cab as it is

 

[Robt]

Can't you follow the tramlines to make breaks, or is that practice just for us peasants who steer manually?
I couldn't be arsed swapping ab lines to do headlands and such messing on, rather just be cutting!

Can you not do two things at once? You can press about 6 buttons In a row while driving (30secinds max!) you must be on a serious tight schedule.... amazed you have time to post on here with us other non peasants!

 

[Spud]

Can you not do two things at once? You can press about 6 buttons In a row while driving (30secinds max!) you must be on a serious tight schedule.... amazed you have time to post on here with us other non peasants!

Don't be silly Robert, that's how accidents happen. I watch where I'm going.
It's often an 'essential' to an employee, much less so to the person paying the bill.

Show me then, given your experience, quantification for auto steering on a combine. How long do you reckon payback is?

 

[Phil P]

Don't be silly Robert, that's how accidents happen. I watch where I'm going.
It's often an 'essential' to an employee, much less so to the person paying the bill.

Show me then, given your experience, quantification for auto steering on a combine. How long do you reckon payback is?

I would say in terms of operator fatigue autotrac payback on a combine will pay for itself quicker than any other machine!
Harvest is probably the most stressful time of year when the operator is putting more hours in than any other time of year.
Allowing the operator to focus purely on machine performance and not have to worry about using the full width of the header on every pass means a lot more acreage covered.
Especially when your cutting laid crops and it feeds better cutting across the crop instead of with it. No way would I be without it now.

 

[Kaupoi]

Installing autosteer system to combine cost me about 100€; wheel angle sensor and some wiring. Then I just throw in rest of the stuff (total cost about 1000€) from a tractor. I think it has paid it self after first field.
AgOpenGPS + Ardusimple F9P

 

[Chae1]

Most tractors come guidance ready nowadays so just had to buy a receiver and pay a small annual subscription. Where do you get 9k from?

Guidance ready doesn't mean anything with most brands.

Extra 7k on a steer ready new Holland to actually get it steering.

 

[Sandy]

I would say in terms of operator fatigue autotrac payback on a combine will pay for itself quicker than any other machine!
Harvest is probably the most stressful time of year when the operator is putting more hours in than any other time of year.
Allowing the operator to focus purely on machine performance and not have to worry about using the full width of the header on every pass means a lot more acreage covered.
Especially when your cutting laid crops and it feeds better cutting across the crop instead of with it. No way would I be without it now.
View attachment 929518

Agree with this I get much more output of the combine since swapping it over from a tractor I had the gps on so just the wiring harness too fit.

 

[Spud]

I would say in terms of operator fatigue autotrac payback on a combine will pay for itself quicker than any other machine!
Harvest is probably the most stressful time of year when the operator is putting more hours in than any other time of year.
Allowing the operator to focus purely on machine performance and not have to worry about using the full width of the header on every pass means a lot more acreage covered.
Especially when your cutting laid crops and it feeds better cutting across the crop instead of with it. No way would I be without it now.
View attachment 929518

I guess it maybe is on combinable crop farms, for us it's a fairly chilled warm up to spuds!

We're rarely more than a foot overlapped on 20, so 5% overlap. Driver not bothered by tech,quite happy to drive it manually, very chilled.
Rare for us to have flat crops,but it does happen.
Even autosteer won't take absolutely a full header, particularly in oats or barley say, when there's some crop hanging over, so we'd only gain 2-3% width. That's 40 breeds of the combine to gain one breed - rarely do we have a field that wide!

Never say never, but I'd rather spend money on things that show a quantifiable return.

For example
We spent £10.5k on a bigger charge hopper to feed our potato grader this year, that saved us a tractor, trailer, driver & fuel all season. That's a saving of at least £2000/week. If we'd had a longer season than the 4weeks we were on, it'd of paid for itself in the first season.

 

[Robt]

Don't be silly Robert, that's how accidents happen. I watch where I'm going.
It's often an 'essential' to an employee, much less so to the person paying the bill.

Show me then, given your experience, quantification for auto steering on a combine. How long do you reckon payback is?

So you never change the radio, adjust the fan speed, sieve settings while moving.... as said previously (I think by you) biggest return on investment is by fitting it to drilling tractor.
however to answer you combine question.
the wider the header the bigger the return on a 1000 acre farm I’d say you would see it paid for in 3 years. Most of these kits last 8-10 years at least so that’s not bad.
sometimes the biggest benefit or return on investment is for operators comfort to ease fatigue on longer days. Would you go back to no cabs and a bagging machine?
after all it’s a choice. ( well not in the ops situation as he is scared of his wife) .

 

[Chae1]

I guess it maybe is on combinable crop farms, for us it's a fairly chilled warm up to spuds!

We're rarely more than a foot overlapped on 20, so 5% overlap. Driver not bothered by tech,quite happy to drive it manually, very chilled.
Rare for us to have flat crops,but it does happen.
Even autosteer won't take absolutely a full header, particularly in oats or barley say, when there's some crop hanging over, so we'd only gain 2-3% width. That's 40 breeds of the combine to gain one breed - rarely do we have a field that wide!

Never say never, but I'd rather spend money on things that show a quantifiable return.

For example
We spent £10.5k on a bigger charge hopper to feed our potato grader this year, that saved us a tractor, trailer, driver & fuel all season. That's a saving of at least £2000/week. If we'd had a longer season than the 4weeks we were on, it'd of paid for itself in the first season.

Would it not justify itself on spuds for opening up etc? I don't know anything about root crops but seems to be one area where it seems to be pushed.

Personally I like it because it makes up for my lack of ability. Can drill/plough perfectly straight all day long. Come off tractor feeling fresh at night and do more hours than I would if steering.

Some guys I spray for, don't have autosteer on drill tractor and overlapped area is a fair bit.

 

[Robt]

I guess it maybe is on combinable crop farms, for us it's a fairly chilled warm up to spuds!

We're rarely more than a foot overlapped on 20, so 5% overlap. Driver not bothered by tech,quite happy to drive it manually, very chilled.
Rare for us to have flat crops,but it does happen.
Even autosteer won't take absolutely a full header, particularly in oats or barley say, when there's some crop hanging over, so we'd only gain 2-3% width. That's 40 breeds of the combine to gain one breed - rarely do we have a field that wide!

Never say never, but I'd rather spend money on things that show a quantifiable return.

For example
We spent £10.5k on a bigger charge hopper to feed our potato grader this year, that saved us a tractor, trailer, driver & fuel all season. That's a saving of at least £2000/week. If we'd had a longer season than the 4weeks we were on, it'd of paid for itself in the first season.

On a 25’ header that’s just 6” you think you will gain. I’d say more like 12” minimum. You are basing your calculations on your specific business model. Which is what you should do as that’s how you run YOUR business. However every farm is different.

 

[Hampton]

Just get her to do a day driving the tractor with it then get her try without and see if she changes her mind.
It hard to justify the initial cost but then are savings be made, even the best driver can’t drive to an exact width on every pass! Savings on seed fert and chem do add up but the biggest benefit is the reduction in driver fatigue.

My workman had it on the drill this year. I haven’t once heard him complaining of tiredness this autumn whereas previously he was knackered and it was hard to get him to start early in the mornings (oh, I just need to change the tines etc).
it’s very good

 

[Banana Bar]

I think you would struggle to sell a large frame combine on the second hand market without auto steer capability. The cost of ownership is the important bit.

 

[Phil P]

I guess it maybe is on combinable crop farms, for us it's a fairly chilled warm up to spuds!

We're rarely more than a foot overlapped on 20, so 5% overlap. Driver not bothered by tech,quite happy to drive it manually, very chilled.
Rare for us to have flat crops,but it does happen.
Even autosteer won't take absolutely a full header, particularly in oats or barley say, when there's some crop hanging over, so we'd only gain 2-3% width. That's 40 breeds of the combine to gain one breed - rarely do we have a field that wide!

Never say never, but I'd rather spend money on things that show a quantifiable return.

For example
We spent £10.5k on a bigger charge hopper to feed our potato grader this year, that saved us a tractor, trailer, driver & fuel all season. That's a saving of at least £2000/week. If we'd had a longer season than the 4weeks we were on, it'd of paid for itself in the first season.

It’s not just about over/under lap, it’s about been able to focus on other things other than steering the machine. In the case of a combine it’s about performances, adjusting sieves, concave, fan to get the best sample and output. When drilling can keep a lookout wats happening behind, blockages dragging machine faults. Same pretty much goes for every field operation, once you take steering out the equation which takes probably more concentration than anything else it allows a lot more time to get the best out of the equipment.
However, if your happy without it and can’t see any benefits then carry on as you are. I’ve yet to find anyone who’s has had autotrac and not ordered on their next machine.

 

[Spud]

So you never change the radio, adjust the fan speed, sieve settings while moving.... as said previously (I think by you) biggest return on investment is by fitting it to drilling tractor.
however to answer you combine question.
the wider the header the bigger the return on a 1000 acre farm I’d say you would see it paid for in 3 years. Most of these kits last 8-10 years at least so that’s not bad.
sometimes the biggest benefit or return on investment is for operators comfort to ease fatigue on longer days. Would you go back to no cabs and a bagging machine?
after all it’s a choice. ( well not in the ops situation as he is scared of his wife) .

Wrong, mostly.

I said I could justify it ridging potato land, but ranked autosection above steering the sprayer or drill. It just happens that the ridging tractor does most of the drilling - I'd struggle to justify it just for drilling.
Of course I adjust the radio, sieves etc on the move - all of these fall to hand easily, and for the most part can be done by feel - not the same with a touch screen, which is more akin to typing a text message while driving down a moorway at 70mph by comparison.

Could you illustrate how you think it pays for itself on a 1000ac farm please? I don't mean to be argumentative, I'm just interested in the maths.


8-10yrs life in theory. Often out of date in 3yrs, kit changed before 10yrs is up on many farms, when often the gps kit is 'too old' to swap to the next machine.

I get the operator fatique bit, don't get me wrong, but it's not for every operator. My drill operator loves the kit, combine driver hates it. We're all different.

Please don't reduce a sensible question about quantifying tech to a silly analogy about historic harvesting methods, I asked you the question primarily because you used to sell such kit.

 

[Spud]

Would it not justify itself on spuds for opening up etc? I don't know anything about root crops but seems to be one area where it seems to be pushed.

Personally I like it because it makes up for my lack of ability. Can drill/plough perfectly straight all day long. Come off tractor feeling fresh at night and do more hours than I would if steering.

Some guys I spray for, don't have autosteer on drill tractor and overlapped area is a fair bit.

Yes, certainly. We have ridged on RTK since 2009, with measurable benefits, and because we have it, we use it for drilling too. When we first got it, we used the same kit to produce yield maps on the combine (major cost to steer it too, so we didn't bother) Since changed combine, and this one already has yield & moisture, and we have a weighbridge now, so cannot justify putting GPS on the combine at the moment. (Driver doesn't want it either)

 

[Chae1]

Yes, certainly. We have ridged on RTK since 2009, with measurable benefits, and because we have it, we use it for drilling too. When we first got it, we used the same kit to produce yield maps on the combine (major cost to steer it too, so we didn't bother) Since changed combine, and this one already has yield & moisture, and we have a weighbridge now, so cannot justify putting GPS on the combine at the moment. (Driver doesn't want it either)

Apologies. I didn't realise you already have autosteer on a tractor.

 

[Will 1594]

Yes, certainly. We have ridged on RTK since 2009, with measurable benefits, and because we have it, we use it for drilling too. When we first got it, we used the same kit to produce yield maps on the combine (major cost to steer it too, so we didn't bother) Since changed combine, and this one already has yield & moisture, and we have a weighbridge now, so cannot justify putting GPS on the combine at the moment. (Driver doesn't want it either)

Why does he not want it ,
as you and others say ,its another tool in the box to make it easier
just for fun i am going to try and put it on lawn mower its working out how to get i tec pro to work to lift it up and down and turn it can get it to steer ok