Autonomous tractor

Clive

Staff Member
Location
Lichfield


this video is 4 years old ............... and built by and amateur using open source tech

so why is it not commercial yet ? whats holding back progress so much ?
 

robcollins

Member


this video is 4 years old ............... and built by and amateur using open source tech

so why is it not commercial yet ? whats holding back progress so much ?
You answered your own question, hard to commercialise an open source piece of software.

I believe there’s a Vice video about people hacking into the CPU systems of JD tractors to repair them.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Location
Lichfield
You answered your own question, hard to commercialise an open source piece of software.

I believe there’s a Vice video about people hacking into the CPU systems of JD tractors to repair them.

if it can be done open source then why are others not dosing so ? all the major tractor manufactures must have the ability so it has to be either cots or legislation holding us back here ?


.....................or are they just releasing the tech a bit at a time so we have constant reason to upgrade ?
 

Vincent

Member
Location
Kildare Ireland
Look at Caterpillars autonomous trucks on you tube. There is a lot more to it than letting a machine off to work in a ring fenced area. You need dead band areas in which to access them for maintenance etc, what about machine adjustments and if some one comes into the work area. With the trucks there is constant remote monitoring.
My brother worked on Cats first commercial site the Solomon mine. And the monitoring is extensive. You can't just set it up and go on the pee.
 

PSQ

Member
Location
Scottish Borders
if it can be done open source then why are others not dosing so ? all the major tractor manufactures must have the ability so it has to be either cots or legislation holding us back here ?
A driver is a lot cheaper / hour than the additional tech an monitoring required for automation , is able to service the machinery, can spot a problem that technology wouldn’t easily detect, will be able to keep the operation moving through 99% of eventualities, will be able to deal with other essential farming tasks on wet days (etc) and all for C.£10/hour.

An automated tractor needs someone else to service and repair it which some businesses would delegate to a dealer at £75/hour, it can’t spot a missing disc /coulter / buggered bearing, it can spot a blocked seed pipe etc but it can’t resolve any issues without human intervention which necessitates taking manpower from another task (so 2 operations stopped), it might not detect early signs of a major mechanical issue, so that ‘stitch in time’ turns into a £15k bill and 3 weeks waiting for the repair to complete.

You’d almost think some ‘bosses’ cant stand having anyone else ‘playing with their toys’...
 

Clive

Staff Member
Location
Lichfield
A driver is a lot cheaper / hour than the additional tech an monitoring required for automation , is able to service the machinery, can spot a problem that technology wouldn’t easily detect, will be able to keep the operation moving through 99% of eventualities, will be able to deal with other essential farming tasks on wet days (etc) and all for C.£10/hour.

An automated tractor needs someone else to service and repair it which some businesses would delegate to a dealer at £75/hour, it can’t spot a missing disc /coulter / buggered bearing, it can spot a blocked seed pipe etc but it can’t resolve any issues without human intervention which necessitates taking manpower from another task (so 2 operations stopped), it might not detect early signs of a major mechanical issue, so that ‘stitch in time’ turns into a £15k bill and 3 weeks waiting for the repair to complete.

You’d almost think some ‘bosses’ cant stand having anyone else ‘playing with their toys’...

a driver will cost you 40k per year ? that buys a fair bit of tech and it should last more than a year ........................ if you can find good ones and after recently trying to recruit I can tell you that is not easy and is a BIG problem now
 

Farmer_Joe

Member
Location
The North
it will happen arable is sure to be the first victim especially big farms in u.s.

as above the legislation prob hinders it loads as these machines follow routed pre planned, if there were 50 school children in the way it would just continue on its path regardless, the hard bit is making it realise these is something there and or what it is.

p.s half way through the book you recommended very good.
 

milkloss

Member
Location
East Sussex
A very clever set up especially as he did it essentially on his own. The second vid explains it better and is impressive.

The problem is making the machine aware of its surroundings an accounting for the unknown. Even Tesla hasn’t got that right yet and even then you have to make sure that the car doesn’t drive you into a wall/crash barrier, cook you alive or self destruct in a car park!
 

snarling bee

Member
Location
Bedford
Not a tree or telegraph pole in sight.
You still need the men on the combine and trailers/lorries. A chaser bin driver would not cost £40k, he's the man on the combine. Who moves it down the road every time you move blocks of land?
 
A driver is a lot cheaper / hour than the additional tech an monitoring required for automation , is able to service the machinery, can spot a problem that technology wouldn’t easily detect, will be able to keep the operation moving through 99% of eventualities, will be able to deal with other essential farming tasks on wet days (etc) and all for C.£10/hour.

An automated tractor needs someone else to service and repair it which some businesses would delegate to a dealer at £75/hour, it can’t spot a missing disc /coulter / buggered bearing, it can spot a blocked seed pipe etc but it can’t resolve any issues without human intervention which necessitates taking manpower from another task (so 2 operations stopped), it might not detect early signs of a major mechanical issue, so that ‘stitch in time’ turns into a £15k bill and 3 weeks waiting for the repair to complete.

You’d almost think some ‘bosses’ cant stand having anyone else ‘playing with their toys’...
Labour is the biggest cost in many industries by miles. A lot of serious equipment can be programmed to shut down if it detects a fault no matter what the operator does. Uses the exact same sensors that are used to inform the operator there is a problem.

Lots of machinery will become fully automated due to the simple fact in many cases the operators do not exist.

Try finding 10 qualified loading shovel drivers available to work next month in the UK....
 

PSQ

Member
Location
Scottish Borders
Labour is the biggest cost in many industries by miles. A lot of serious equipment can be programmed to shut down if it detects a fault no matter what the operator does. Uses the exact same sensors that are used to inform the operator there is a problem.
My Horsch drill has 14 coulters, none of which a sensor to stop the drill if a coulter falls off. One assembly did fall off in it's first season, and it was spotted by a good operator straight away, dragging under the drill by a seed hose.
To mechanise the labour out of the job, every coulter will need a sensor, to cover every eventuality every moving part will need a sensor. But It wont be a part falling off the drill that loses the farm a days drilling, it will be one or more of 400 sensors going on the blink that fudges the job right up. Only then will we realise that 400 expensive sensors can't replace 1 pair of eyes.

In 10 years time, when the £40,000 a year skilled labour has been paid off, we'll be able to spend all day watching YouTube clips of 'automated' tractors dragging three quarters of a seed drill and 100 yards of fence across 10,000 ha farms, and gleefully say: "Isn't 'progress' wonderful!"

And God forbid the 5G network goes down during harvest, it would paralyse the industry.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Location
Lichfield
My Horsch drill has 14 coulters, none of which a sensor to stop the drill if a coulter falls off. One assembly did fall off in it's first season, and it was spotted by a good operator straight away, dragging under the drill by a seed hose.
To mechanise the labour out of the job, every coulter will need a sensor, to cover every eventuality every moving part will need a sensor. But It wont be a part falling off the drill that loses the farm a days drilling, it will be one or more of 400 sensors going on the blink that fudges the job right up. Only then will we realise that 400 expensive sensors can't replace 1 pair of eyes.

In 10 years time, when the £40,000 a year skilled labour has been paid off, we'll be able to spend all day watching YouTube clips of 'automated' tractors dragging three quarters of a seed drill and 100 yards of fence across 10,000 ha farms, and gleefully say: "Isn't 'progress' wonderful!"

And God forbid the 5G network goes down during harvest, it would paralyse the industry.
So what if sensors could do what your eyes can ? Or inffact t do BETTER than your eyes can ?

Wait see what JD are going to launch soon ( at Agritechnica would be my guess) - I had a glimpse of the future last month in the USA
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
if it can be done open source then why are others not dosing so ? all the major tractor manufactures must have the ability so it has to be either cots or legislation holding us back here ?


.....................or are they just releasing the tech a bit at a time so we have constant reason to upgrade ?
Manufactures having been pushing all sorts of techno farming at the market for years and they'll know the score when it comes to demand.

Think robotic milking, it's been around for over 20 years now, and the uptake?
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
So what if sensors could do what your eyes can ? Or inffact t do BETTER than your eyes can ?

Wait see what JD are going to launch soon ( at Agritechnica would be my guess) - I had a glimpse of the future last month in the USA
What sensors are those then Clive?

JD, mmmm,... Whatever happened to their battery powered tractor shown at Agritechnica 2017?
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
My Horsch drill has 14 coulters, none of which a sensor to stop the drill if a coulter falls off. One assembly did fall off in it's first season, and it was spotted by a good operator straight away, dragging under the drill by a seed hose.
To mechanise the labour out of the job, every coulter will need a sensor, to cover every eventuality every moving part will need a sensor. But It wont be a part falling off the drill that loses the farm a days drilling, it will be one or more of 400 sensors going on the blink that fudges the job right up. Only then will we realise that 400 expensive sensors can't replace 1 pair of eyes.

In 10 years time, when the £40,000 a year skilled labour has been paid off, we'll be able to spend all day watching YouTube clips of 'automated' tractors dragging three quarters of a seed drill and 100 yards of fence across 10,000 ha farms, and gleefully say: "Isn't 'progress' wonderful!"

And God forbid the 5G network goes down during harvest, it would paralyse the industry.
5G may well be paralysing us long before it paralyses any industry.
 
My Horsch drill has 14 coulters, none of which a sensor to stop the drill if a coulter falls off. One assembly did fall off in it's first season, and it was spotted by a good operator straight away, dragging under the drill by a seed hose.
To mechanise the labour out of the job, every coulter will need a sensor, to cover every eventuality every moving part will need a sensor. But It wont be a part falling off the drill that loses the farm a days drilling, it will be one or more of 400 sensors going on the blink that fudges the job right up. Only then will we realise that 400 expensive sensors can't replace 1 pair of eyes.

In 10 years time, when the £40,000 a year skilled labour has been paid off, we'll be able to spend all day watching YouTube clips of 'automated' tractors dragging three quarters of a seed drill and 100 yards of fence across 10,000 ha farms, and gleefully say: "Isn't 'progress' wonderful!"

And God forbid the 5G network goes down during harvest, it would paralyse the industry.
The labour isn't going to exist. Why do you think CNC machines exist? Try finding 100 skills machinists than can do the work of a single CNC machine.

Wage inflation is a fact of life and it's only going one way.
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
Labour is the biggest cost in many industries by miles. A lot of serious equipment can be programmed to shut down if it detects a fault no matter what the operator does. Uses the exact same sensors that are used to inform the operator there is a problem.

Lots of machinery will become fully automated due to the simple fact in many cases the operators do not exist.

Try finding 10 qualified loading shovel drivers available to work next month in the UK....
There is a lot of huffery and puffery about labour shortages but quite often, when you scrape away at the surface, you will find vested interests beavering away spreading the spin. Classic case over here of that happening recently but the parties involved are too easily identified so won't say too much.
 

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