Autonomous tractor

[Scribus]

The labour isn't going to exist. Why do you think CNC machines exist? Try finding 100 skills machinists than can do the work of a single CNC machine.

Wage inflation is a fact of life and it's only going one way.

So what are all these people doing instead?

CNC machines are there because they do a far better job than human machinists.

 

[ollie989898]

There is a lot of huffery and puffery about labour shortages but quite often, when you scrape away at the surface, you will find vested interests beavering away spreading the spin. Classic case over here of that happening recently but the parties involved are too easily identified so won't say too much.

It won't exist mate. I am telling you.

Today's kids just aren't interested. I've spent significant amounts of time in secondary schools and this kind of work just isn't on their radars. Either machines will have to do it or the whole lot will be outsourced elsewhere. At this rate even finding people to repair and install the machines will be hard work.

 

[ollie989898]

So what are all these people doing instead?

You tell me?? I don't know.

 

[Clive]

You tell me?? I don't know.

Working less hours ? Maybe work life balance has shifted over the years ?

Is it a bad thing ? Do people exist simply to work ? Are we like ants or bees ? Why do we desire and value such existence ?

This debate is much bigger than ag - society/ humanity has some seriously challenging questions to ask itself in the future .......

 

[ollie989898]

Working less hours ? Maybe work life balance has shifted over the years ?

Is it a bad thing ? Do people exist simply to work ? Are we like ants or bees ? Why do we desire and value such existence ?

This debate is much bigger than ag - society/ humanity has some seriously challenging questions to ask itself in the future .......

It comes down to people making money off the back of human endeavour. I had a similar conversation today, ultimately people are never going to work as hard as a person who owns their own business. They already get a worse deal anyway because people in PAYE have to pay NI contributions and have none of the tax allowances as someone who owns their own business. Couple that with the ridiculous system for 'state' pensions and you can see an almighty fudge up in the making already.

I do not know the answer but I do know that the youth of today have no intention of working down a coal mine and don't seem keen to do jobs even where good money can be had. Make of that what you like. Even a lot of young professionals experience burnout within the first 5-8 years of final qualification. The absolute and projected retention rates across many many vocations make for scary reading particularly when you consider that many of them will have 30K of student loan attached just for their tuition fees and the tax payer is financing those.

Even experienced people who have been in the job a long time appear unreliable in some instances.

 

[Clive]

Manufactures having been pushing all sorts of techno farming at the market for years and they'll know the score when it comes to demand.

Think robotic milking, it's been around for over 20 years now, and the uptake?

Whoever designs such schemes has it seriously wrong right now

Such as shame as potential to do a lot of good fiat both farmers and environment

 

[ollie989898]

Robotic milking units are going out the door at an accelerating pace, local installers have an extensive waiting list I believe. I was informed that the very latest designs that are not yet in the marketplace are using stepper motors instead of pneumatics as I suggested they might years ago- speed and ultimate precision I presume is the reason why.

 

[Scribus]

Whoever designs such schemes has it seriously wrong right now

Such as shame as potential to do a lot of good fiat both farmers and environment

I think we have an awful lot seriously wrong with certain technologies, mainly IT/digital.

 

[Scribus]

Robotic milking units are going out the door at an accelerating pace, local installers have an extensive waiting list I believe. I was informed that the very latest designs that are not yet in the marketplace are using stepper motors instead of pneumatics as I suggested they might years ago- speed and ultimate precision I presume is the reason why.

Let's hope so, but have we any actual numbers?

 

[Shep]

We have a robotic slurry collector, new tech, only been on the Market 2years, its had all the updates. It only has to work in the confines of the cow shed, it has a millimetre perfect digital map of the shed burned into its memory, it travels at 100 metres per minute.
And yet!! It gets lost at least 3 or 4 times a week, if it gets knocked off course it is supposed to be able to find its way back, it Has NEVER been able to do so and just shuts down leaving mountains of dung building up till it is reset manually and usually takes 12hrs to get caught up.
It cost the same as a decent new car, but doesn't fill me with confidence about autonomous vehicles.

 

[kiwi pom]

Labour is the biggest cost in many industries by miles. A lot of serious equipment can be programmed to shut down if it detects a fault no matter what the operator does. Uses the exact same sensors that are used to inform the operator there is a problem.

Lots of machinery will become fully automated due to the simple fact in many cases the operators do not exist.

Try finding 10 qualified loading shovel drivers available to work next month in the UK....

Equipment's no good shut down though is it, sensor spots a problem machine stops then what? The machines parked possibly for a simple sensor fault and has to wait until someone can get too it. Techs fine but in my view its still going to need an operator even if they don't actually drive it.
As for the labour shortage, I don't believe there is one. its just made up by companies that cant get or retain staff.
Could you get ten shovel drivers? It depends, what's the job and how long is it for? You'll probably find its for a temp contract, so someone works there for a month, contracts over and they're out of a job again. There's no security.
If it was a full time job, decent hours, money, gear then yes I believe you absolutely could find the operators.
Truck driving's a great example, many companies say there's a shortage, there's one near here always advertising but they always get applicants they just don't stay.
Its not a shortage its a retention problem.

 

[Scribus]

Equipment's no good shut down though is it, sensor spots a problem machine stops then what? The machines parked possibly for a simple sensor fault and has to wait until someone can get too it. Techs fine but in my view its still going to need an operator even if they don't actually drive it.
As for the labour shortage, I don't believe there is one. its just made up by companies that cant get or retain staff.
Could you get ten shovel drivers? It depends, what's the job and how long is it for? You'll probably find its for a temp contract, so someone works there for a month, contracts over and they're out of a job again. There's no security.
If it was a full time job, decent hours, money, gear then yes I believe you absolutely could find the operators.
Truck driving's a great example, many companies say there's a shortage, there's one near here always advertising but they always get applicants they just don't stay.
Its not a shortage its a retention problem.

Nail on the head.

If there are staff shortages then what are the industries concerned doing about it? other than whinging of course.

The first thing that any industry can do is talk about 'staff' and not 'labour', show a bit of respect for employees rather than dismiss them as a commodity.

 

[Scribus]

Autonomous vehicles were the primary attempt at big tech muscling in on the car market, it eventually dawned on them that cars are not just another device they can churn out of a cheap factory in China so the attention has switched to other areas it seems, and I doubt that they will fare much better. Programming a tractor to run up and down an empty field is easy enough, but how does it get between fields? A whole different ball game and there isn't the excitement about AV's that there was just a year or two back mainly because it's not that easy after all.

If autonomy comes to the fields it will be probably be via small independent robots running around zapping weeds rather than a big tractor with a computer where the cab used to be. But that doesn't get the harvest in, be it grass or cereals.

 

[stevedave]

The biggest issue will be reliability of the electronics. Just look at what happens now if a sensor throws up a problem the first thing is to change the sensor as 9 times out of 10 it's a knackered sensor. If we then have problems with machines shutting down because there isn't anything wrong but the sensor is fkd.

 

[PSQ]

The labour isn't going to exist. Why do you think CNC machines exist? Try finding 100 skills machinists than can do the work of a single CNC machine.

Wage inflation is a fact of life and it's only going one way.

CNC exists because it is ideally suited to a clean predictable environment doing repeatable precision tasks at 4am on a bank holiday. And it doesn’t need a lunch break, holidays, or an antagonistic union rep to call a wildcat strike in sympathy with workers on another continent (a current Jeremy Corbyn proposal). In short, it’s far superior to a human machinist, whether or not it’s cheaper.

A skilled farm worker doesn’t go on strike, takes seasonally appropriate holidays, works when the work needs done, is flexible to fill a variety of roles, and works in a team of people with *good mental health*.

@Clive , I’ll wager you’ll end up painting a face on your autonomous tractor, and you’ll call it ‘Wilson’

 

[Clive]

mental health*.

@Clive , I’ll wager you’ll end up painting a face on your autonomous tractor, and you’ll call it ‘Wilson’

I hacked my home Alexa's yesterday and renamed them "Jarvis" my wife did spend the evening asking if I had nothing better to do .................. she may have a point !

 

[renewablejohn]

If only I could justify one of these.

https://www.naio-technologies.com/en/agricultural-equipment/large-scale-vegetable-weeding-robot/

The video is worth watching.

 

[ollie989898]

CNC exists because it is ideally suited to a clean predictable environment doing repeatable precision tasks at 4am on a bank holiday. And it doesn’t need a lunch break, holidays, or an antagonistic union rep to call a wildcat strike in sympathy with workers on another continent (a current Jeremy Corbyn proposal). In short, it’s far superior to a human machinist, whether or not it’s cheaper.

A skilled farm worker doesn’t go on strike, takes seasonally appropriate holidays, works when the work needs done, is flexible to fill a variety of rolls, and works in a team of people with *good mental health*.

@Clive , I’ll wager you’ll end up painting a face on your autonomous tractor, and you’ll call it ‘Wilson’

Skilled farm workers wont exist unless they are paid big money.

 

[Clive]

Skilled farm workers wont exist unless they are paid big money.

there is already a massive shortage of "skilled" farm workers

 

[ollie989898]

there is already a massive shortage of "skilled" farm workers

Its not me who you need to convince!