Autonomous tractor

[Scribus]

If you remember a couple of years ago CNH were waxing lyrical about their autonomous tractor. I was talking to a NH employee about this and he was saying how it's very clever and it was going to revolutionise crop production, I then pointed out to him that they couldn't get an icon to point up when the linkage was up and down when it was down, and after 2 or 3 software updates it still wouldn't work properly, so if the tractor didn't know something simple like this then why on earth would I trust it to drive its self. But more to the point it took NH 2 years to sort the icon problem.

There is an awful lot of hype and hot air surrounding machine and vehicle autonomy, too many are taken in by it.

One of the big problems with any digital advancement is that the sexy work is in the development of a new system, that's where the brains go, unfortunately, it often leaves a lot of holes and glitches to be plugged and repaired, and nobody is is interested in doing that. It can often be got away with to a certain extent in everyday commerce but when it comes to life threatening situations like the control of vehicles then there is no room for error.

 

[Scribus]

Adjustment to threshing is old tech - class and jd have had that for a few years now. Nothing too clever about that

re the new tech, they didn’t t have to say anything much - I saw it !

I would reserve judgment until you know what it actually is

Oh I dunno, Case were adamant that the level of automation on the combines was also unique.

 

[ollie989898]

Haven’t read most of the thread, so point may have been made. But I think automation could be another thing that knackers the farming industry in this country more than helps it. Purely because it will be so much easier to use in the big wide open fields and spaces of USA, Australia Russia etc. In this country there are just too many 5 acre fields, telegraph poles, traffic, crap roads, people everywhere, chemicals banned, regulation etc etc. Automation could drop the cost of production and increase output where it’s easy to use rendering us unviable, to an extent at least anyway.

Ive said this for ages- big autonomous machines make sense in the areas you mention. Not swarms of fudging mini drones.

 

[ollie989898]

If you remember a couple of years ago CNH were waxing lyrical about their autonomous tractor. I was talking to a NH employee about this and he was saying how it's very clever and it was going to revolutionise crop production, I then pointed out to him that they couldn't get an icon to point up when the linkage was up and down when it was down, and after 2 or 3 software updates it still wouldn't work properly, so if the tractor didn't know something simple like this then why on earth would I trust it to drive its self. But more to the point it took NH 2 years to sort the icon problem.

A monkey can change that. Its hardly rocket science.

 

[db9go]

Two plane cashes and a cruse liner have put a lot of thing back its all about limits and that is what is there problem

 

[Lexion1000]

Ive said this for ages- big autonomous machines make sense in the areas you mention. Not swarms of fudging mini drones.

Exactly, in this country, I think automation will be a management nightmare requiring lots of people monitoring everything. But in a wide open space it would be a dream come true.
Exciting times though.

 

[stevedave]

A monkey can change that. Its hardly rocket science.

NH obviously don't employ monkeys then. This is the point even something as simple as that took 2 years to sort out.

 

[robcollins]

if it can be done open source then why are others not dosing so ? all the major tractor manufactures must have the ability so it has to be either cots or legislation holding us back here ?


.....................or are they just releasing the tech a bit at a time so we have constant reason to upgrade ?

Sorry for the late reply Clive,

I don’t think you’d start by making everything automated. You’d do it a process at a time.

I think the best way to automate is to look at the “worst” job first.

The worst job depends on your viewpoint, of course. It could be spot application of a weed control agent. Or blowtorching a weed if you were 100% organic.

If we take that as an example, the machine vision has to recognise the weed.

It then has to burn it, without setting everything aflame.

So, imagine our little machine on 4 bicycle wheels, able to 4 wheel steer and 4 wheel drive using hub motors.

It roams the assigned area, finds the weed and burns it, but there is a curtain surrounding the burning chamber, to protect everything around it from fire.

It then monitors the area to ensure it hasn’t started a fire.

It would log the position on a map, and move on, perhaps checking in an hour to make sure there is no remaining heat.

It could also have a method of extinguishing the plant it had just heat treated.

Perhaps a blast of a suitable gas.

You’d find the limitations though.

Getting each step right is a challenge.

That’s before we get into the possibilities of hacking them.

I certainly wouldn’t make my main tractor automated, or a machine capable of running over someone, until I had tried some smaller ones and got them perfect.

It also won’t solve a labour crisis. I see a lot of poor work carried out by guys who haven’t been taught properly or don’t care.

I’m an electrician, I see a lot of the safety measures now implemented on site to be a reaction to the poor quality labour that is being employed.

When I say labour I mean labourers, who are on probably €17 per hour. (Most of them are top guys)

There are exceptions. I see them do silly things, just not thinking. Then there’ll be a new rule or measure to prevent something easily avoidable.

There’s also the problem with how your job is perceived, I see apprentices who think carrying stuff is beneath them, even though they’re just first years.

It’s cultural, I think. It’s an idea you should be top dog after 5 minutes, that it should all be easy.

They reckon it should be big money and clean work all the time.

 

[Clive]

Oh I dunno, Case were adamant that the level of automation on the combines was also unique.

It might be ....... until agritechnica

 

[Scribus]

NH obviously don't employ monkeys then. This is the point even something as simple as that took 2 years to sort out.

This goes back to what I was saying earlier, everybody wants to be involved in the new exciting sexy stuff, but few are willing to patch up the mistakes and bugs left in the wake of it all. It happens all the time elsewhere. Just recently we have had arguments with Vodaphone and Eircom, both have super dooper systems in place they assure us, and both have cocked up due to 'glitches' in said systems.

 

[Scribus]

Sorry for the late reply Clive,

I don’t think you’d start by making everything automated. You’d do it a process at a time.

I think the best way to automate is to look at the “worst” job first.

The worst job depends on your viewpoint, of course. It could be spot application of a weed control agent. Or blowtorching a weed if you were 100% organic.

If we take that as an example, the machine vision has to recognise the weed.

It then has to burn it, without setting everything aflame.

So, imagine our little machine on 4 bicycle wheels, able to 4 wheel steer and 4 wheel drive using hub motors.

It roams the assigned area, finds the weed and burns it, but there is a curtain surrounding the burning chamber, to protect everything around it from fire.

It then monitors the area to ensure it hasn’t started a fire.

It would log the position on a map, and move on, perhaps checking in an hour to make sure there is no remaining heat.

It could also have a method of extinguishing the plant it had just heat treated.

Perhaps a blast of a suitable gas.

You’d find the limitations though.

Getting each step right is a challenge.

That’s before we get into the possibilities of hacking them.

I certainly wouldn’t make my main tractor automated, or a machine capable of running over someone, until I had tried some smaller ones and got them perfect.

It also won’t solve a labour crisis. I see a lot of poor work carried out by guys who haven’t been taught properly or don’t care.

I’m an electrician, I see a lot of the safety measures now implemented on site to be a reaction to the poor quality labour that is being employed.

When I say labour I mean labourers, who are on probably €17 per hour. (Most of them are top guys)

There are exceptions. I see them do silly things, just not thinking. Then there’ll be a new rule or measure to prevent something easily avoidable.

There’s also the problem with how your job is perceived, I see apprentices who think carrying stuff is beneath them, even though they’re just first years.

It’s cultural, I think. It’s an idea you should be top dog after 5 minutes, that it should all be easy.

They reckon it should be big money and clean work all the time.

When you see the world fawning over a sixteen year old being exploited by the pseudo green movement then is there any surprise in other teenagers expecting to be treated the same?

 

[ollie989898]

Exactly, in this country, I think automation will be a management nightmare requiring lots of people monitoring everything. But in a wide open space it would be a dream come true.
Exciting times though.

I suspect if you buy one of these things a service by subscription may be offered whereby a central monitoring station manned by humans 24/7 can oversee and monitor hundreds of the things remotely and alert the owner if it goes awry or someone trys to steal it.

A computer can flag up if a machine has developed a fault, stopped, strayed where it shouldnt have or become stuck etc. A remotely operated camera on the roof could be viewed remotely by a human in a monitoring station and see what the issue is.

Ultimately if you marked out the field boundaries on a computer, included any obstacles etc and uploaded that data to the machine it would be able to work the whole field correctly if the software was good enough.

None of the hardware ive mentioned in this post is new either. Vehicle fleets are often monitored by security companies and there are already security cameras you can view remotely over the internet.

 

[Scribus]

I suspect if you buy one of these things a service by subscription may be offered whereby a central monitoring station manned by humans 24/7 can oversee and monitor hundreds of the things remotely and alert the owner if it goes awry or someone trys to steal it.

A computer can flag up if a machine has developed a fault, stopped, strayed where it shouldnt have or become stuck etc. A remotely operated camera on the roof could be viewed remotely by a human in a monitoring station and see what the issue is.

Ultimately if you marked out the field boundaries on a computer, included any obstacles etc and uploaded that data to the machine it would be able to work the whole field correctly if the software was good enough.

None of the hardware ive mentioned in this post is new either. Vehicle fleets are often monitored by security companies and there are already security cameras you can view remotely over the internet.

Surveillance capitalism.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

Ag Equipment Manufacturers are Falling Behind Electric Car Trends

By Todd Janzen posted on May 18, 2019 | Posted in Product Innovations
Source: Janzen Ag Law

The automotive industry is undergoing the most radical transformation since people sold their horses and carriages and purchased automobiles. Almost every automaker is investing billions of dollars to develop and market all-electric vehicles (EVs). Consider this: Volkswagen, the world’s largest carmaker, announced that its last generation gasoline and diesel internal combustion engines will be released in 2026.

The transformation is happening at lightning speed. Tesla, which barely existed 10 years ago, had the best-selling luxury car in 2018, the all-electric Model 3. Other automakers are scrambling to bring EVs to market. Morgan Stanley analysts predict by 2040 EVs will overtake internal combustion vehicles in worldwide sales.

In China, the transition is happening even faster. BYD, an electric car company most Americans have never heard of, is already churning out 30,000 EVs each month. Its owner predicts that China will turn off its last internal combustion vehicle by 2030.

The ag equipment industry, by contrast, does not appear to be investing billions into transitioning much of existing gas and diesel equipment to electric power. Here are the few examples I’ve found that exist today.

AGCO’s Fendt offers an electric utility tractor with 100kWh battery that offers 5 hours of use without recharging. This machine appears to be the only all-electric tractor on the market from a major farm equipment manufacturer. 100kWh is the same battery size as the longest range Teslas, which are limited by size and weight. A tractor could hold more, but Fendt is tiptoeing into the market.

John Deere (of France) built a larger prototype electric tractor with 130kWh battery that made 402hp. The tractor was never commercially sold and existed only as a concept, from what I can tell. Deere of Germany also produced a corded electric tractor that apparently produces 400hp, but it is, of course, permanently tethered to a power source. This too is a concept.

There are other manufacturers with smaller machines in pipeline. Swiss manufacturer Rigitrac has a utility tractor with a 80 kWh battery. Solectrac, a north American startup, builds small electric tractors with 30kWh batteries that it claims offer 25 hp. Farmtrac, an Indian company, also offers a small utility all-electric tractor.

We are also starting to see electric riding lawn mowers and other power equipment, but otherwise farmers looking for the Tesla-of-farm-machinery really do not have many options.

There are obvious hurdles to overcome when adopting electric drivetrains to agricultural equipment, such as range and cost. But there are also advantages that are obstacles with passenger cars, such as the inability to interchange batteries. Weight is also a factor for passenger vehicles, but not so much for farm equipment.

The ag tech industry prides itself on being ahead of the curve in many ways, but from my standpoint, when it comes to electric power, the ag industry is way behind the trend.

If you know of another manufacturer with an electric tractor on the market now or soon, please post a link in the comments below.

KEYWORDS AG EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERSALL-ELECTRIC VEHICLESINTERNAL COMBUSTION VEHICLESJOHN DEERE ELECTRIC TRACTOR

Todd Janzen
Todd Janzen is an attorney at Janzen Agricultural Law LLC (www.aglaw.us) in Indianapolis. Todd grew up on a Kansas grain and livestock farm and now practices law in the agriculture and technology fields. Todd is the past chair of the American Bar Association’s Agricultural Management Committee and authors a blog addressing legal issues facing agriculture: www.aglaw.us/JanzenAgLaw. Contact: [email protected].

 

[ollie989898]

Surveillance capitalism.

Telematics already exists.

 

[robcollins]

When you see the world fawning over a sixteen year old being exploited by the pseudo green movement then is there any surprise in other teenagers expecting to be treated the same?

Agree, there’s a few quid there and they’re taking advantage of these kids.

Being famous for nothing is a problem. There’s a lot of “look how well I’ve done” and “aren’t I great” online. Gives the younger people an idea that instant success is within their grasp.

I sound like a grumpy begrudger now!

 

[robcollins]

Boston Dynamics have some nice kit

 

[nick...]

I can’t see how these autonomous machines are going to avoid wet holes,telegraph posts and all sorts of other obstacles.i may be proven wrong in time.id also worry about hackers shutting machines down if they are Runnng on 5/6/7g or what ever will be available at the time.i know there is a really serious shortage of farm staff as there is with plant ops and lorry drivers.with the lack of margins in our game things won’t change anytime soon
Nick...

 

[Scribus]

Ag Equipment Manufacturers are Falling Behind Electric Car Trends

By Todd Janzen posted on May 18, 2019 | Posted in Product Innovations
Source: Janzen Ag Law

The automotive industry is undergoing the most radical transformation since people sold their horses and carriages and purchased automobiles. Almost every automaker is investing billions of dollars to develop and market all-electric vehicles (EVs). Consider this: Volkswagen, the world’s largest carmaker, announced that its last generation gasoline and diesel internal combustion engines will be released in 2026.

The transformation is happening at lightning speed. Tesla, which barely existed 10 years ago, had the best-selling luxury car in 2018, the all-electric Model 3. Other automakers are scrambling to bring EVs to market. Morgan Stanley analysts predict by 2040 EVs will overtake internal combustion vehicles in worldwide sales.

In China, the transition is happening even faster. BYD, an electric car company most Americans have never heard of, is already churning out 30,000 EVs each month. Its owner predicts that China will turn off its last internal combustion vehicle by 2030.

The ag equipment industry, by contrast, does not appear to be investing billions into transitioning much of existing gas and diesel equipment to electric power. Here are the few examples I’ve found that exist today.

AGCO’s Fendt offers an electric utility tractor with 100kWh battery that offers 5 hours of use without recharging. This machine appears to be the only all-electric tractor on the market from a major farm equipment manufacturer. 100kWh is the same battery size as the longest range Teslas, which are limited by size and weight. A tractor could hold more, but Fendt is tiptoeing into the market.

John Deere (of France) built a larger prototype electric tractor with 130kWh battery that made 402hp. The tractor was never commercially sold and existed only as a concept, from what I can tell. Deere of Germany also produced a corded electric tractor that apparently produces 400hp, but it is, of course, permanently tethered to a power source. This too is a concept.

There are other manufacturers with smaller machines in pipeline. Swiss manufacturer Rigitrac has a utility tractor with a 80 kWh battery. Solectrac, a north American startup, builds small electric tractors with 30kWh batteries that it claims offer 25 hp. Farmtrac, an Indian company, also offers a small utility all-electric tractor.

We are also starting to see electric riding lawn mowers and other power equipment, but otherwise farmers looking for the Tesla-of-farm-machinery really do not have many options.

There are obvious hurdles to overcome when adopting electric drivetrains to agricultural equipment, such as range and cost. But there are also advantages that are obstacles with passenger cars, such as the inability to interchange batteries. Weight is also a factor for passenger vehicles, but not so much for farm equipment.

The ag tech industry prides itself on being ahead of the curve in many ways, but from my standpoint, when it comes to electric power, the ag industry is way behind the trend.

If you know of another manufacturer with an electric tractor on the market now or soon, please post a link in the comments below.

KEYWORDS AG EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERSALL-ELECTRIC VEHICLESINTERNAL COMBUSTION VEHICLESJOHN DEERE ELECTRIC TRACTOR

Todd Janzen
Todd Janzen is an attorney at Janzen Agricultural Law LLC (www.aglaw.us) in Indianapolis. Todd grew up on a Kansas grain and livestock farm and now practices law in the agriculture and technology fields. Todd is the past chair of the American Bar Association’s Agricultural Management Committee and authors a blog addressing legal issues facing agriculture: www.aglaw.us/JanzenAgLaw. Contact: [email protected].

It's all about energy density, and batteries are just nowhere near carbon based fuels. Electric cars are not that clever either - see various other threads.

 

[Scribus]

Telematics already exists.

So do guns, but we don't go shooting everybody.