Autumn manure banned

[AlfM]

22. Assuming an agronomic benefit as diagnosed by a FACTS adviser e.g. combined with chopped straw or direct drilling, can any organic manure be applied before autumn cereal crops within the FRfW? Assuming any high readily available N content material is applied before NVZ closed periods. FRfW apply to all organic manure regardless of the readily available N content. No autumn soil and crop nitrogen requirements have been established for winter cereals, regardless of cultivation practices.

That bit above from the Q & A seems to suggest nothing in front of winter cereals allowed?

 

[czechmate]

For interest...
I used to machinery swop to get the use of a spreader (now I’ve bought my own), last year it was faulty and I couldn’t slow the bed down, while I was trying to get to grips with how to spread my muck with it (including spreading at 20k) I absolutely plastered a couple of ha ahead of barley. Well I was worried about the loss of muck (I’m always short), harvested my winter r barley about a month ago, that 2 ha was a huge crop so obviously all nutrient doesn’t get washed away and we have had the wettest weather ever since last October

 

[Michael S]

Yup do it in Feb, make foot deep wheelings wash a load of soil into the dykes, have to wait till April to get them ripped and levelled up and get a mediocre crop of May drilled spring barley that doesn’t use the nutrients which then get washed out.

But hey at least you spread it in spring so the EA are happy [emoji23]

I don't think FYM is a problem because the N isn't readily available providing you have P indices 2 or less and can demonstrate in Manner-NPK maximum leaching of 5kgN/ha:

Having consumed much of the morning looking into this I have found this BASIS/FACTS communication:

https://basis.synapture.co.uk/Portals/0/Documents/Blog%20Docs/Final%20Farming%20Rules%20for%20Water%20-%20FACTS%20communication%203rd%20Aug.pdf?ver=2021-08-03-095915-330&timestamp=1627981109585

Having looked through it and checked in the MANNER-NPK program that FYM, even pig FYM, I think should be OK in front of a cereal providing P indices are 2 or below and your soil type and winter rainfall mean leaching losses stay below 5kgN/ha. The leaching per hectare can be reduced by reducing the total application rate if necessary. I am feeling slightly more relaxed at the moment, at least for my own situation; P indices being 2 or less are the key to autumn FYM spreading along with a nutrient management plan to back it up.

 

[Hindsight]

22. Assuming an agronomic benefit as diagnosed by a FACTS adviser e.g. combined with chopped straw or direct drilling, can any organic manure be applied before autumn cereal crops within the FRfW? Assuming any high readily available N content material is applied before NVZ closed periods. FRfW apply to all organic manure regardless of the readily available N content. No autumn soil and crop nitrogen requirements have been established for winter cereals, regardless of cultivation practices.

That bit above from the Q & A seems to suggest nothing in front of winter cereals allowed?

You may struggle to get a FACTS qualified adviser at the moment. They are all to busy checking their professional indemnity insurance.

 

[curlietailz]

I don't think FYM is a problem because the N isn't readily available providing you have P indices 2 or less and can demonstrate in Manner-NPK maximum leaching of 5kgN/ha:

maybe
But you have to tell EA what your doing and why
They will very likely inspect you ( those 50 extra officers have to have somat to do)
And they will very likely test your soil and test the nearby water

best stick within the current law and spread in spring is my opinion

 

[Hindsight]

I don't think FYM is a problem because the N isn't readily available providing you have P indices 2 or less and can demonstrate in Manner-NPK maximum leaching of 5kgN/ha:

We will all be asking our nearest CSF office for guidance. The delightfully cheerful Rebecca Pow MP was waxing lyrically on here Twitter feed earlier today about the Tory governments recruitment of extra advisory staff.

 

[Danllan]

...Generally, I certainly think autumn spreading ahead of winter cereals is the best all round solution for muck and sludge. Application has to be a sensible amount and with sensible timing, again, maybe where farmers have let us down in the past.

All fair enough, but the emboldened bit is the crux; I know of a chap near Newcastle Emlyn who has just had to spend ~£500k on slurry storage in anticipation of what WAG are doing and are likely to do. He hasn't a huge herd by modern standards - certainly, in my opinion, not enough to warrant that sort of spending - but I understand that he doesn't see as he has any choice.

I've a friend who has been doing good business in over-Winter B&B, but with the new reg's he'll simply be unable to take in the number of beasts necessary to make it work for him without spending a fortune to increase slurry storage capacity... we're looking at buying in straw together now in the hope of economies that might help him - and me - a bit... fortunately he has other options to the B&B, but it's still a pain for him.

Simple truth is, slurry overkill has gone on too widely for too long, and I think a change is necessary. But the speed of it is going to be the killer for a lot of smaller operators. That might be helpful for bigger ones if there is a chance of convenient expansion; perhaps even for small fellows like me who operate a system without slurry, being able to pick up a few field as neighbours sell up... but at what 'price' - and I don't mean £s per acre?

The writing has been on the wall for a long time and people should have taken notice, of course; but the legislation should, I think, be a far more gradual - but nonetheless irresistible - thing. As is, it will be a pretty swift killer blow to many...

 

[radar]

Current rules say Fym or slurry to be incorporated within a short period to reduce losses and smell. That'll work well applying onto a growing cereal crop!

 

[AlfM]

Finally think this proves how useless and ineffective the NFU are. Makes the RT nonsense seem insignificant.

 

[czechmate]

All fair enough, but the emboldened bit is the crux; I know of a chap near Newcastle Emlyn who has just had to spend ~£500k on slurry storage in anticipation of what WAG are doing and are likely to do. He hasn't a huge herd by modern standards - certainly, in my opinion, not enough to warrant that sort of spending - but I understand that he doesn't see as he has any choice.

I've a friend who has been doing good business in over-Winter B&B, but with the new reg's he'll simply be unable to take in the number of beasts necessary to make it work for him without spending a fortune to increase slurry storage capacity... we're looking at buying in straw together now in the hope of economies that might help him - and me - a bit... fortunately he has other options to the B&B, but it's still a pain for him.

Simple truth is, slurry overkill has gone on too widely for too long, and I think a change is necessary. But the speed of it is going to be the killer for a lot of smaller operators. That might be helpful for bigger ones if there is a chance of convenient expansion; perhaps even for small fellows like me who operate a system without slurry, being able to pick up a few field as neighbours sell up... but at what 'price' - and I don't mean £s per acre?

The writing has been on the wall for a long time and people should have taken notice, of course; but the legislation should, I think, be a far more gradual - but nonetheless irresistible - thing. As is, it will be a pretty swift killer blow to many...

For myself, spreading our muck over these next weeks is such an integral part of our whole system, i wouldn’t know where to begin to change our business if we were suddenly not allowed

 

[curlietailz]

The arable men will choose to chop the straw and knock the muck for straw on the head

the BnB pig ( and cattle) men will find the homes for their pig and cattle muck difficult to find

they will stop or reduce their numbers

the source of the pigs and cattle will find getting BnB more difficult and they will reduce numbers

the pig and cattle herd will shrink

pork and beef meats will be imported and the arable men will find there is little requirement for their feed grain

will take about 3 years to manifest

( there are other genders available)

 

[Danllan]

For myself, spreading our muck over these next weeks is such an integral part of our whole system, i wouldn’t know where to begin to change our business if we were suddenly not allowed

Well, around here a lot of people are working on the same basis as you and we're about to find out what they come up with - unless the politicos U turn, which has been known...

I heard an EU AG' minister interviewed a few weeks ago - I think Dutch or Danish, probably Danish because it was a bloke - and he was dead keen on seeing the whole of the EU knock slurry use right back - I guess he must be a popular fellow somewhere...? But I can't see the French, for obvious socio-political reasons, making your life too difficult in reality, regardless of what may be required on paper.

...

( there are other genders available)

 

[teslacoils]

Current rules say Fym or slurry to be incorporated within a short period to reduce losses and smell. That'll work well applying onto a growing cereal crop!

I didn't think it applied to a growing crop. Certainly the safe sludge matrix allowed biosolids application to grass without incorporation. Nice.

 

[Luke Cropwalker]

22. Assuming an agronomic benefit as diagnosed by a FACTS adviser e.g. combined with chopped straw or direct drilling, can any organic manure be applied before autumn cereal crops within the FRfW? Assuming any high readily available N content material is applied before NVZ closed periods. FRfW apply to all organic manure regardless of the readily available N content. No autumn soil and crop nitrogen requirements have been established for winter cereals, regardless of cultivation practices.

That bit above from the Q & A seems to suggest nothing in front of winter cereals allowed?

Only an application of old FYM that would not lead to nitrate leaching over winter, this is assuming that the application can be justified on P&K requirement for the crop. I am sure you have been composting your FYM all year ready for this scenario?

 

[AlfM]

Only an application of old FYM that would not lead to nitrate leaching over winter, this is assuming that the application can be justified on P&K requirement for the crop. I am sure you have been composting your FYM all year ready for this scenario?

In other parts of the document are they not dismissing that you can compost FYM in only a year?

 

[Hjwise]

As spreading muck on heavy land in the spring is not practical in most years, storing the muck is therefore not possible (or serves no use). So as I read it, you notify the EA that you plan to use the RPS with the evidence and apply muck in the Autumn.

 

[warksfarmer]

Guys when are you going to realise this industry isn’t wanted. This has been on the cards since BSE.

It’s why the Nfu moved their membership into none farming.

U.K. agriculture is going to be a carbon sequestration exercise with some organic bolstered by multiple farm diversification’s. Actual farming isn’t going to feature.

 

[Northern territory]

who in their right mind would want to get into intensive pig, poultry or dairy farming now. Surely many of these established businesses already have high p and k indices. I fear this will have some far reaching consequences.

 

[Courier]

In other parts of the document are they not dismissing that you can compost FYM in only a year?

What happens to the “N” in FYM whilst it is undergoing the composting process ?

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

In other parts of the document are they not dismissing that you can compost FYM in only a year?

Whereas some practitioners achieve lovely compost in 8 to 12 weeks.

@martian