Autumn manure banned

[Hindsight]

I presume Jim Mosely will be checking up on the manure credentials of imported food stuffs.

 

[D14]

Haven't read this all but Only have a modest quantity of fym but spreading it in spring is completely impractical on our ground. Will have to start growing OSR!

You can’t spread it in front of osr.

 

[Midnight plough boy]

Next RT audit when asked for your manure management plan just show them an A4 piece of paper with a big question mark on it

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Pick

Changed my cropping system first, then changed muck timing, not at the same time.

 

[AlfM]

You can’t spread it in front of osr.

Where does it say that? If your indices are under 3 surely you can justify a sensible amount?

 

[Hindsight]

Of course the soil indices is the elephant in the room for many. Now who is going to police that!? Are these EA Policemen/women going to take soil samples or take the farmers data at face value. I can provide soil samples with indices of 0 for a reasonable sum. Other low soil indices suppliers are available. But take the case of a farm with many or most fields at P index 4. That business now is faced if following the law with xporting all its solid manure output. And being held possibly to ransom to do so. my George Eustace you have set the cat among the pigeons!

I meant to add - yet another case of potentially making liars of us! Hey ho. I wonder what the FACTS qualified advisers are going to make of this?

 

[teslacoils]

Rpa have all field numbers.
Fields all have codes in for arable or grass
Just add box where farmer or lab can upload soil samples every five years.
Layer on these new forms.
Then bit of computers and joined up government.

Badaboom badabing. Nice govt it contract. Paid for by fines. Trebles all round ...except for us.

 

[Hindsight]

Rpa have all field numbers.
Fields all have codes in for arable or grass
Just add box where farmer or lab can upload soil samples every five years.
Layer on these new forms.
Then bit of computers and joined up government.

Badaboom badabing. Nice govt it contract. Paid for by fines. Trebles all round ...except for us.

Now Tesla. A land parcel - is that a soil sample result for whole parcel? Or part of a parcel. A parcel (field) may have varying indices within it. Certainly I have data for Fen fields where changes from silt to organic clay loam with attendant change of index from 0 to 4 in space of a few metres. What about where parcels are sampled on a one hectare or smaller grid basis. Fun to be had here.

 

[GeorgeK]

Now Tesla. A lad parcel - is that a soil sample result for whole parcel? Or part of a parcel. A parcel (field) may have varying indices within it. Certainly I have data for Fen fields where changes from silt to organic clay loam with attendant change of index from 0 to 4 in space of a few metres. What about where parcels are sampled on a one hectare or smaller grid basis. Fun to be had here.

It has always been the way when dealing with the RPA, their need to make the soft natural world fit onto a spreadsheet. Is it a hedge, scrub or a line of trees? We always take our life in our hands when signing to confirm the information we have provided is accurate when much of it can't practically be measured and is always changing. Can the manure itself can be tested to prove it's low in nutrients, maybe using the cade lamb pen for the sample?

 

[curlietailz]

RT missed a trick here
All this regulation and they weren’t chosen to regulate it

 

[Hindsight]

RT missed a trick here
All this regulation and they weren’t chosen to regulate it

This regulation has been around for a while. Just that Mr George Eustace has decided, finally, to draw a line in the sand and implement it. But it does provide an alternative employer in the EA for RT inspectors.

 

[teslacoils]

Certainly I have data for Fen fields where changes from silt to organic clay loam with attendant change of index from 0 to 4 in space of a few metres.

Will have to have a clipboard out watching you not spread in the 4s then turning back on in the 2s.

 

[Michael S]

Having consumed much of the morning looking into this I have found this BASIS/FACTS communication:

https://basis.synapture.co.uk/Portals/0/Documents/Blog%20Docs/Final%20Farming%20Rules%20for%20Water%20-%20FACTS%20communication%203rd%20Aug.pdf?ver=2021-08-03-095915-330&timestamp=1627981109585

Having looked through it and checked in the MANNER-NPK program that FYM, even pig FYM, I think should be OK in front of a cereal providing P indices are 2 or below and your soil type and winter rainfall mean leaching losses stay below 5kgN/ha. The leaching per hectare can be reduced by reducing the total application rate if necessary. I am feeling slightly more relaxed at the moment, at least for my own situation; P indices being 2 or less are the key to autumn FYM spreading along with a nutrient management plan to back it up.

 

[Hindsight]

Having consumed much of the morning looking into this I have found this BASIS/FACTS communication:

https://basis.synapture.co.uk/Portals/0/Documents/Blog%20Docs/Final%20Farming%20Rules%20for%20Water%20-%20FACTS%20communication%203rd%20Aug.pdf?ver=2021-08-03-095915-330&timestamp=1627981109585

Having looked through it and checked in the MANNER-NPK program that FYM, even pig FYM, I think should be OK in front of a cereal providing P indices are 2 or below and your soil type and winter rainfall mean leaching losses stay below 5kgN/ha. The leaching per hectare can be reduced by reducing the total application rate if necessary. I am feeling slightly more relaxed at the moment, at least for my own situation; P indices being 2 or less are the key to autumn FYM spreading along with a nutrient management plan to back it up.

Yes, this rule tightening is targeted at Poultry manures, Pig and Cattle Slurries and High Phosphate index soils in general. Quite interesting as I was commenting a few weeks ago that I expected at some stage Phosphate Vulnerbale Vulnerable Zones. Of course this will though impact on many farms -- the key for FYM farms is to have soil P levels below 2. As I said in an earlier thread there will be suppliers of suitable soil results showing index below 2. I expect them to pop up advertising in the farming press. You will just need to send these folk a sample of your soil. It will come back as a result of index 1. There you are for your records. Cheers.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

So what are the implications for land where they have indices above 3 but it’s not available and the crop doesn’t utilise it?

Instead of just lobbing on a big heap of manure which is readily available (and leachable) what can those farmers do to release what they have?

 

[tw15]

Forgive me i have this wrong so has the ban has come in yet or is it still in proposal form ?

 

[Hindsight]

Forgive me i have this wrong so has the ban has come in yet or is it still in proposal form ?

There is no ban as such. That is the beauty of these rules. No band but plenty of dead ends in the maze when you read the regulations. But the situations where manures can be applied in Autumn are somewhat limited. And vary between farm business. Its all in the reading of the rules. Looks tricky if your field has a P index above 3. And / or the manure is Poultry or slurry. Straw based FYM on a low P soil before OSR absolutely fine! That is my take>

 

[D14]

So what are the implications for land where they have indices above 3 but it’s not available and the crop doesn’t utilise it?

Instead of just lobbing on a big heap of manure which is readily available (and leachable) what can those farmers do to release what they have?

Apply it out of the bag.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I am interested to see what will happen with the sludge heaps sitting in fields round here this autumn - it seems to me that it is already in storage so it will have to wait until the spring?

So long as the winter is dry else those heaps will be causing pollution issues from runoff....

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Applying organic manure and manufactured fertiliser to agricultural land
(4) Without limiting what may otherwise be done to comply with paragraph (3), examples of reasonable precautions include—

(b)incorporating organic manure and manufactured fertiliser into the soil within 12 hours of, or as soon as possible after, its application, and

Am I slow catching up or is that the first time we've seen a recommendation to incorporate manufactured fertilisers?