autumn re-seeding

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
time has come, again, for autumn re-seeds. Interested to know what, farmers are planning variety wise.
Had some interesting discussions, recently with seed reps. We have had an awful 3dry summers, on the trot, and grass, has been very short, both in quantity and life !
Rep in this morning, basically suggesting, that with the trial plots grown, all you get, is a scientist, checking, temp, moisture and growth, every day, and weighing each cut. Fine, but that result, is for that particular place, weather, and moisture, and can only represent, that soil type etc, and probably sown, and kept, in 'ideal' conditions, i expect most of us realise that.
The chat, then went onto germination rate, which is fine, in a manicured ideal plot, but could easily be down to 50% in field conditions, then, if true, you could be down to 7 kg seed/acre, which would explain a lot of thin/poor reseeds. True, in a ideal condition field, 14kg/acre would be fine. But, in less than ideal, weather, soil condition, how it's sown etc, 14 kg, could be as low as 7 kg, big difference. As we have done, many farmers, have upped the seed rate, some as high as 20kg, we are 16 kg.
Then went onto why, 14kg is the 'recommended' rate, and not higher, answer was simple, if price for acre packs, at 14 kg, £60, as quoted by most places, and they put 18 kg, at £100, they wouldn't sell much ! One reason, a lot of grass seed, is now sold in 20/25 kg bags.
It's an interesting point of view, and very different to common thought. Then, went onto other examples, of various products, that only achieve their effectiveness, when used exactly as directed, perhaps not as normal farm use. Most of this, is down to increasing the efficiency of product, achieved, in a lab, but not necessarily on farm !
Back to grass, our new leys this year, have been thin, but are now, quite thick, it's weed grasses, that have grown up, in the 'thin' bits, which broached the point, is it better, to have a % of weed grasses, in a pasture, that grow, in adverse conditions, or a high % of ryegrass, that don't ! Huge amount of interest, in chickory,plantain, herbal leys, but little actually ordered.
Wonder what the 2 seed people, on TFF think !
 

Jdunn55

Member
time has come, again, for autumn re-seeds. Interested to know what, farmers are planning variety wise.
Had some interesting discussions, recently with seed reps. We have had an awful 3dry summers, on the trot, and grass, has been very short, both in quantity and life !
Rep in this morning, basically suggesting, that with the trial plots grown, all you get, is a scientist, checking, temp, moisture and growth, every day, and weighing each cut. Fine, but that result, is for that particular place, weather, and moisture, and can only represent, that soil type etc, and probably sown, and kept, in 'ideal' conditions, i expect most of us realise that.
The chat, then went onto germination rate, which is fine, in a manicured ideal plot, but could easily be down to 50% in field conditions, then, if true, you could be down to 7 kg seed/acre, which would explain a lot of thin/poor reseeds. True, in a ideal condition field, 14kg/acre would be fine. But, in less than ideal, weather, soil condition, how it's sown etc, 14 kg, could be as low as 7 kg, big difference. As we have done, many farmers, have upped the seed rate, some as high as 20kg, we are 16 kg.
Then went onto why, 14kg is the 'recommended' rate, and not higher, answer was simple, if price for acre packs, at 14 kg, £60, as quoted by most places, and they put 18 kg, at £100, they wouldn't sell much ! One reason, a lot of grass seed, is now sold in 20/25 kg bags.
It's an interesting point of view, and very different to common thought. Then, went onto other examples, of various products, that only achieve their effectiveness, when used exactly as directed, perhaps not as normal farm use. Most of this, is down to increasing the efficiency of product, achieved, in a lab, but not necessarily on farm !
Back to grass, our new leys this year, have been thin, but are now, quite thick, it's weed grasses, that have grown up, in the 'thin' bits, which broached the point, is it better, to have a % of weed grasses, in a pasture, that grow, in adverse conditions, or a high % of ryegrass, that don't ! Huge amount of interest, in chickory,plantain, herbal leys, but little actually ordered.
Wonder what the 2 seed people, on TFF think !
Get some cocksfoot and festolium as well as ryegrass and timothy, red clover rather than white or as well as. Plantain for definite chicory if multicut or grazing but not if only going to be cut a couple of times as the stems become like sticks.
We have had great success with lucerne included in our grazing leys.
 

Great In Grass

Member
Location
Cornwall.
14kg/acre may be the 'norm' (15kg in the North & Scotland) but how many seeds per square meter are you sowing? Diploid Perennials have more than twice as many seeds per kilo.

There is then germination, HVS seed is no more money but with Hybrids that can be legally sold with a 75% germ and Perennials 80% (clovers too) mixtures adhering to HVS are well worth looking at.

Finally, for now, the RGCL contains most of the information required varieties currently listed and current would be the ones I would use. Non listed varieties are an unknown quantity particularly when it comes to disease resistance.
 

milkloss

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
Interesting post. I was once told to look at the seed trials in Northern France rather than the british trials..... far more similar to our ground. I believe DLF do this.
 

Great In Grass

Member
Location
Cornwall.
Interesting post. I was once told to look at the seed trials in Northern France rather than the british trials..... far more similar to our ground. I believe DLF do this.
I get often asked if I can send grass mixtures to France, short answer, NO. It comes down again to disease resistance what works here doesn't necessarily work over there and vice versa. Hence use the RGCL as a guide.
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
I'll be drilling my mix from @Great In Grass later next week into a well prepped seedbed. Cross drilled. Will be at 16 to 17kg an acre. No clover as the beasties have munched it all out of last year's mix. Prefer a better seedbed with the rubbish sprayed out, hence go a bit later. Soil will stay warmer here, and we are neither high up or exposed.
 

Great In Grass

Member
Location
Cornwall.
It’s interesting as some companies only sell 13kgs to the acre. A kilo of grass seed is a lot. Why people sell it in 25 kilo bags I don’t know never tally’s up either under sowing or over.
Quoted a near neighbour of your's some years ago and when I called on him he had already purchased seed. When we looked at the bags they were indeed 13kg bags when we calculated the cost per acre mine was £2.00/bag cheaper! 😂 He wasn't happy, we won't mention the carp in his bag either.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
It’s interesting as some companies only sell 13kgs to the acre. A kilo of grass seed is a lot. Why people sell it in 25 kilo bags I don’t know never tally’s up either under sowing or over.
Quoted a near neighbour of your's some years ago and when I called on him he had already purchased seed. When we looked at the bags they were indeed 13kg bags when we calculated the cost per acre mine was £2.00/bag cheaper! 😂 He wasn't happy, we won't mention the carp in his bag either.

25 kg bags, takes the focus of £/ac packs, as said, people tend to think £ pack/ac, we had a neigbour, who would only buy the cheapest pack, regardless of weight, then stretch it out ! And wondered why they couldn't get yields, like others, no fert either, to dear !!!
A lot of replies, but no comment on whether, a thin ryegrass ley, is better with weed grasses that do grow, or without the weed !
Cocksfoot, chickory plantain, vetch, fesques, all going in this autumn, well some up, now. If, our climate is changing, towards drier summers, that's what we will farm for, probably be wet for 3 summers now !
 

hally

Member
Location
cumbria
It’s interesting as some companies only sell 13kgs to the acre. A kilo of grass seed is a lot. Why people sell it in 25 kilo bags I don’t know never tally’s up either under sowing or over.
Proper sods to lift up into a high seed hopper as well, moaned enough to our supplier and now in 20kg far better especially when overseeding 👍
 

Great In Grass

Member
Location
Cornwall.
Then went onto why, 14kg is the 'recommended' rate, and not higher, answer was simple, if price for acre packs, at 14 kg, £60, as quoted by most places, and they put 18 kg, at £100, they wouldn't sell much ! One reason, a lot of grass seed, is now sold in 20/25 kg bags.
With regards to the 14kg/bag I think this harks back to pre-metric when the standard rate was 30lbs/acre. If priced per kilo it does not matter two hoots what the bag size is, over the past couple of weeks I have had grass seed going out in 500kg tote bags.
 

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Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

court-640x360.jpg
A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
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