B and B pig operators

bitwrx

Member
Hi
Go to
www.bqptulip.co.uk

fill in the contact details include your postal details.
I will send you out an info pack including potential earning.
if you include your phone number I will call you and talk it through.
roughly 12-13%ROI. Backed by HSBC
I will also send you the details of your nearest farmer to go and talk to
Hope this helps
Regards Mark

totally agree with all you say. BQP finds each pig in a yard or old accommodation generally costs up to £9 more to produce.
hence why we don’t do much of it. Fine at the mo anyone can make money in pigs harder when China get ASF under control.
As you said last Tues, it's all about COP! Was good to talk to you afterwards; good on ya (and your colleague whose name I've forgotten :X3:) for being so open.

IIRC the numbers you presented were approx £43 k income, contracted for 6 yrs. Out of that needs to come labour, straw, water, power and machinery, finance etc.
Assume water out of a borehole, so cost insignificant.
Assume someone had £300k cash lying around to build the shed so no finance.
Assume £3k/ yr depreciation and running costs on a skid steer or similar.
30% of a FTE labour unit at £40k cost to the business (based on your figures of 2-3hrs a day), that's another £12k.
120t of straw @£50/t =£6k

So running costs at least half the income, leaving a net profit of £21k.

Return on capital employed is more like 7%.
Or, in other words it'll take twice the contract length just to pay off the shed.

The numbers really start to fall apart if, like most of us, you need to borrow the cash to build the shed.

So if these sheds give such a low COP, and not much of the benefit is accruing to the person who ponied up the dough to build the shed, who is making all the money? Sounds like a jolly good wheeze for your Brazilian overlords! ;)
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Actually you can borrow the money very cheaply. The issues I have with the numbers are:

1) the initial build cost. I've a level site, with electric and water closeby, and planning for a 50x200. But there is no way I will do it for £270 a place. I'm working at trying to get the numbers down by not doing it with one turnkey outfit IE source the shed, concrete, fittings, etc myself. Because every £1 saved in setting it up is one less I have to pay back.

2) depreciation of fittings and internals. Noone wants the think they have repaid the bank £200k to find the value of their thing is essentially £100k. Got to factor that in.

3) wage. You are not free. You need to remove wage from profit to get roc.

4) new build sub. You need to run the cash sheet for the full life of the shed to work out real roc in my view. If you strip it out, add in straw and a wage for year 7, what's your roc then?

If I can get the shed built and fit out for what I consider reasonable cost I'll have a go. But sorry £270 a place is just stupid money. But there is real value in a monthly flow of outside cash, and the help and assistance provided by bqp who have only ever been helpful to me despite the long and roundabout trek I have taken to even get this far.
 

Hilly

Member
Actually you can borrow the money very cheaply. The issues I have with the numbers are:

1) the initial build cost. I've a level site, with electric and water closeby, and planning for a 50x200. But there is no way I will do it for £270 a place. I'm working at trying to get the numbers down by not doing it with one turnkey outfit IE source the shed, concrete, fittings, etc myself. Because every £1 saved in setting it up is one less I have to pay back.

2) depreciation of fittings and internals. Noone wants the think they have repaid the bank £200k to find the value of their thing is essentially £100k. Got to factor that in.

3) wage. You are not free. You need to remove wage from profit to get roc.

4) new build sub. You need to run the cash sheet for the full life of the shed to work out real roc in my view. If you strip it out, add in straw and a wage for year 7, what's your roc then?

If I can get the shed built and fit out for what I consider reasonable cost I'll have a go. But sorry £270 a place is just stupid money. But there is real value in a monthly flow of outside cash, and the help and assistance provided by bqp who have only ever been helpful to me despite the long and roundabout trek I have taken to even get this far.
You say £270 place how many places in 200x50 ?
 

Hilly

Member
1000.

In my eyes the cheaper the setup cost, the more realistic the investment. There is also little point in looking at it unless you can use or sell the muck. Straw for muck is ok but you loose too much of the values . It's an ace bolt-on for arable I think if that build cost can be pared down.
Fair investment , probably end up 300k in reality as well.
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Fwiw, if you consider the muck to be worth the value of npk nutrients from a bag, 1000 place shed makes you c£6k of fert over the straw cost.

A rough reckon on life after the new build payment would suggest that you want the build cost at £200k to make a lifetime return of 10 percent after drawing a wage.

I don't know quite how the shed fittings would wear with time. But I have factored £2500 pa in repairs, and money for stuff like accountants which would not be needed as a bolt on.
 

Hilly

Member
Fwiw, if you consider the muck to be worth the value of npk nutrients from a bag, 1000 place shed makes you c£6k of fert over the straw cost.

A rough reckon on life after the new build payment would suggest that you want the build cost at £200k to make a lifetime return of 10 percent after drawing a wage.

I don't know quite how the shed fittings would wear with time. But I have factored £2500 pa in repairs, and money for stuff like accountants which would not be needed as a bolt on.
What you costing straw at ?
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Can't remember. Spreadsheet built a long time ago. I think it works out muck value as the *additional* nutrient over the straw put in, less cost of baling and carting, as it's designed to work on my farm ie the value added to the straw I would otherwise chop.
 

rob h

Member
Location
east yorkshire
Needs to be £200k max.
How handy are you.it can be done for less but you will have to do most of the work yourself.the shed I’ve been helping with the ready Mix was laid with a bit of help.the drinkers feeders and pannels were imported direct from china the pots hinges and fittings were made by a local firm.we carried out all fitting and made the sliding doors did all the wiring and pluming.then finished off last week by fitting the gale breakers with the supervision and help from the manafactures.
 

bitwrx

Member
Can't remember. Spreadsheet built a long time ago. I think it works out muck value as the *additional* nutrient over the straw put in, less cost of baling and carting, as it's designed to work on my farm ie the value added to the straw I would otherwise chop.
It does all get a bit complicated, doesn't it? There are some positive and negative externalities for an integrated farm business that aren't accounted for in my slightly sceptical look at the numbers.

But there's no doubt that finishing pigs on contract is not a licence to print money. Unfortunately.
 

rob h

Member
Location
east yorkshire
It does all get a bit complicated, doesn't it? There are some positive and negative externalities for an integrated farm business that aren't accounted for in my slightly sceptical look at the numbers.

But there's no doubt that finishing pigs on contract is not a licence to print money. Unfortunately.
I’m with you on that.if its so good why aren’t they building sheds and keeping all the profit.
 

Johnnyboxer

Member
Location
Yorkshire
As you said last Tues, it's all about COP! Was good to talk to you afterwards; good on ya (and your colleague whose name I've forgotten :X3:) for being so open.

IIRC the numbers you presented were approx £43 k income, contracted for 6 yrs. Out of that needs to come labour, straw, water, power and machinery, finance etc.
Assume water out of a borehole, so cost insignificant.
Assume someone had £300k cash lying around to build the shed so no finance.
Assume £3k/ yr depreciation and running costs on a skid steer or similar.
30% of a FTE labour unit at £40k cost to the business (based on your figures of 2-3hrs a day), that's another £12k.
120t of straw @£50/t =£6k

So running costs at least half the income, leaving a net profit of £21k.

Return on capital employed is more like 7%.
Or, in other words it'll take twice the contract length just to pay off the shed.

The numbers really start to fall apart if, like most of us, you need to borrow the cash to build the shed.

So if these sheds give such a low COP, and not much of the benefit is accruing to the person who ponied up the dough to build the shed, who is making all the money? Sounds like a jolly good wheeze for your Brazilian overlords! ;)

Interesting figures

Thanks for that
 

Piggy_jags

Member
Location
Suffolk
I’m with you on that.if its so good why aren’t they building sheds and keeping all the profit.
As you said last Tues, it's all about COP! Was good to talk to you afterwards; good on ya (and your colleague whose name I've forgotten :X3:) for being so open.

IIRC the numbers you presented were approx £43 k income, contracted for 6 yrs. Out of that needs to come labour, straw, water, power and machinery, finance etc.
Assume water out of a borehole, so cost insignificant.
Assume someone had £300k cash lying around to build the shed so no finance.
Assume £3k/ yr depreciation and running costs on a skid steer or similar.
30% of a FTE labour unit at £40k cost to the business (based on your figures of 2-3hrs a day), that's another £12k.
120t of straw @£50/t =£6k

So running costs at least half the income, leaving a net profit of £21k.

Return on capital employed is more like 7%.
Or, in other words it'll take twice the contract length just to pay off the shed.

The numbers really start to fall apart if, like most of us, you need to borrow the cash to build the shed.

So if these sheds give such a low COP, and not much of the benefit is accruing to the person who ponied up the dough to build the shed, who is making all the money? Sounds like a jolly good wheeze for your Brazilian overlords! ;)
Thanks for your points. Simon was his name and does that mythical stuff in breeding.
im afraid all i do is regurgitate much of what I get told by others.
Bank managers tell me they see the 12-13% ROI who am I to argue
The farmers that have done a turnkey build tell me its worthwhile.
one farmer has told me how much he puts in his back pocket, most wont talk money.
we have built 160+ now. 3 have gone out of commission.
1 for planning failings.
1 for financial miss dealings in an earlier life
1 due to retirement and no succession plan.

1 conversion gone out of the system

true some older piggeries have gone due to age or poor performanc.

many of those that built 1000 place are now looking to build again and 5 that built 2000 are looking to go into IPPC.
from this I can only assume its a worth while thing to do for some people.
though I accept not everyone
 

tomg

Member
Location
York
For those thinking of finishing pigs there are other companies out there other than BQP. Most other companies are happy with open straw yards which are considerably cheaper to build.
Personally I think the BQP shed layout is poor and labour intensive. I spoke to a chap with a BQP shed as was surprised at the everyday labour requirement.
 

Piggy_jags

Member
Location
Suffolk
You are absolutely correct there are others out there. But this thread came from a talk I did last week. The others have the right to jump in at any time. Re labour that again is down to personal choice. I like to be as open as possible for what we expect for the stock. Avg 2-3 hrs per day for a 1000 pigs to muck out, straw down and check the animals individually the same as we do with sheep and cattle is what is expected. If I told people you can do it in an hour I would be lying.
 

S J H

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
Thanks for your points. Simon was his name and does that mythical stuff in breeding.
im afraid all i do is regurgitate much of what I get told by others.
Bank managers tell me they see the 12-13% ROI who am I to argue
The farmers that have done a turnkey build tell me its worthwhile.
one farmer has told me how much he puts in his back pocket, most wont talk money.
we have built 160+ now. 3 have gone out of commission.
1 for planning failings.
1 for financial miss dealings in an earlier life
1 due to retirement and no succession plan.

1 conversion gone out of the system

true some older piggeries have gone due to age or poor performanc.

many of those that built 1000 place are now looking to build again and 5 that built 2000 are looking to go into IPPC.
from this I can only assume its a worth while thing to do for some people.
though I accept not everyone

Would performance be affected @Piggy_jags if the buildings were taller? When I've seen them they look quite low at the eaves. Is the 200x50 for a 1000 space? And do you get much smell?
 

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