B & B pay rates

[jackrussell101]

This would be the only thing that would concern me going into pigs in the medium term, this AHDB document suggests the USA has production costs a third cheaper than ours here in the UK... but I've never heard the pig sector worry about future trade deals with cheap pork like the beef and the chicken sectors have...

View attachment 2016 Pig cost of production in selected countries.pdf

 

[snarling bee]

With how many pigs and how many batches would that be?

What's the view on future trade deals if cheaper pork was to come in from the USA as has been threatened with beef and chicken?

We do 2 x10,000 sq ft sheds with 1000 pigs in each going from weaning to finished, Gross income circa £85k.

I've no idea on future trade deals, but presumably if everything goes down, then feed will as well. We are not directly affected being contract growers, but could affect the whole industry.

 

[Pan mixer]

This would be the only thing that would concern me going into pigs in the medium term, this AHDB document suggests the USA has production costs a third cheaper than ours here in the UK... but I've never heard the pig sector worry about future trade deals with cheap pork like the beef and the chicken sectors have...

View attachment 893843

That is only because no one ever listens to us.... Ractopamine has been discussed although the Americans say that they don't use it much now but it isn't illegal there, similarly castration without anaesthetic.

Their cheap pigs come from (as far as I can see) Cheap maize - the EU have an import tax on that which keeps the price of FOB maize price here quite high when it is lower in the US.

Sow stalls allowing cheaper accomodation for the gestating sow (I wouldn't go back to stalls myself though, I would rather give up pigs)

Ecomomies of scale that you could never get here due to the planning system, density of population etc.

Lower welfare and environmental standards

A different attitude from lenders to pig farmers - back in the day when I tried to buy more land but with only pigs and a small area of owned land the nbanks would only give 10 year loans for example rather than a 25 or even 40 year mortgage. I have no idea whether this is still true though as I am not going to buy more land now.

 

[maen]

Uk pig production is expensive compared with most other world countries. I have seen sow stalls still in use in mainland Europe when they had been banned in the UK for a decade.
Sow stall on slats is a cheaper way of farming pig meat. Automation of feeding improves output and reduced sow damage. All systems have plus and minus but COP is what keeps the business functioning.
The other factor is less stringent ‘pollution’ control on all farms, including pig farms. Certainly the USA did not used to have the equivalent of the EA hovering outside of their Farm gates. I recall seeing a large dairy unit in USA with a never emptying slurry pit. It maintained this status with a combination of evaporation and soak away to the ground water. Not what we would condone in the Uk.
I read an Article by Tim Smith ( Ex Arla Uk?) in the weekend press stating that Chlorinated chicken was acceptable, which it is. Pig meat is in the same area of debate.
Remember the £3.60 disadvantage of not being able to use Meat and Bone in pig diets. Post Brexit and Post Covid 19 we might not be able to be quite as picky with our methods of production. After all food banks seem to be a growth industry, and the soft underbelly of any government.

 

[jackrussell101]

Thank you for those last two posts, both were very informative and interesting.

I certainly hope that we can still make a living farming post Brexit, whatever enterprise we end up doing.

 

[Pan mixer]

Uk pig production is expensive compared with most other world countries. I have seen sow stalls still in use in mainland Europe when they had been banded in the UK for a decade.
Sow stall on slats is a cheaper way of farming pig meat. Automation of feeding improves output and reduced sow damage. All systems have plus and minus but COP is what keeps the business functioning.
The other factor is less stringent ‘pollution’ control on all farms, including pig farms. Certainly the USA did not used to have the equivalent of the EA hovering outside of their Farm gates. I recall seeing a large dairy unit in USA with a never emptying slurry pit. It maintained this status with a combination of evaporation and soak away to the ground water. Not what we would condone in the Uk.
I read an Article by Tim Smith ( Ex Arla Uk?) in the weekend press stating that Chlorinated chicken was acceptable, which it is. Pig meat is in the same area of debate.
Remember the £3.60 disadvantage of not being able to use Meat and Bone in pig diets. Post Brexit and Post Covid 19 we might not be able to be quite as picky with our methods of production. After all food banks seem to be a growth industry, and the soft underbelly of any government.

Point of information, sow stalls were completely banned in the UK in 1999, the rest of the EU had until 2013 to partially ban them (use stalls only for the first 6 weeks of a 16 week gestation) most pig producing countries in the EU hadn't acheived this modest goal by 2017.

 

[Pan mixer]

Another ogre has emerged today - the German government has issued a ruling that all stalls will be banned from 8 years time except when a sow is being inseminated. They have also given German producers 15 years to ban farrowing crates which is very serious for us as the HM Government have repeatedly stated that they wish to ban them too a thing that has only been tempered by high pressure lobbying by the NPA etc and perhaps a reluctance to export welfare standards abroad for which we have a shocking history with pigs.

When the sow stalls ban came in here the number of sows in the UK virtually halved but pork consumption stayed the same or went up a bit as the foreign farmers could produce the pork about 10 p per kg cheaper than us and guess whether the uk supermarkets and service sector bought their meat after that.....

A farrowwing crate ban would finish me in pigs, there never seems to be enough profit in the job to replace the whole farrowing section at one time unless you are keen on borrowing or have other enterprises.