B275 Again

[averageguy54]

Much food for thought here gentlemen, will definitely be looking into upgrades to glow plug system as well as safeguards. In my travels,(google related) I recall seeing threads in other forums related to changing up the glow plug system so I will read them as well.
I'm still waiting for the compression tester so I can formulate a plan of attack. Is it solely a pre-start conditon that can be easily cured wth attention to glow plugs, filters injectors maybe and valves reset, or is it a deeper problem that needs looking at sleeves and pistons as well? I can afford to do what I MUST do but I'm not going to start spending until I know what it is that I must do. My plan is to tear it apart once and be done with it.

I will keep you posted with the results. That guy doesn't show up soon, I'm going to have to spend $200 and buy my own tester. Seems like a waste of money tho, to have to buy it and use it once!

 

[X344chap]

A cheap compression tester will do fine - there's some on ebay from the US for $19

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Diesel-E...493601?hash=item56c30b6de1:g:MB8AAOSwp-Rajc0j

You can unscrew the heater plug to connect your compression tester - you dont need any fancy adapters to put in the injector holes.

If you cant get a tester then just tear it down and check every everything visually and by measurement. Check the cylinder bores for scoring or lipping and the internal diameter. Any broken valve springs - are the valves loose in the guides? Pour some diesel onto the head upside down and leave overnight to see if the valves are leaking. Pull a piston and have a look at the rings - any broken rings or evidence of blow-by? What are the end of the ring gaps like. Do the bearing shells still have white metal on them - you can plastigauge them as well. This kind of methodical visual inspection and measuring things will give you an indication of whats needing done.

Btw - if you start the engine with the exhaust removed - you can see whether its one or all the cylinders that are producing any smoke.

 

[startinghandle]

I have unintentionally annoyed someone here but that's how it goes!!

 

[averageguy54]

I called #1 son tonight and told him that if they were having trouble finding an adapter, to use the glow plug I provided and make one.

I did some research and found a few threads on some US forums regarding the glow plug conversion. The Mercedes glow plug is from a 190D model and the Bosch part # is 0250201044. It shows threads as M18x1.5, the same as the tractor. Over here they list for about 35-40 English pounds apiece. There was also some suggestion that 80's VW models could fit but nobody had numbers I could trace. The threads there also replaced the pepper pot and actuating handle with a simple Ford starter solenoid. The one found on the fender of almost all Fords back in the 60's, 70's and early 80's. Add in a switch to activate the solenoid and count to 10. I will, however, drill and tap my old plugs to accept the same glow plug my old GM truck uses, they cost about 15 pounds each.

If the compression test indicates a tear down is justified, everything will be checked out ,including the head. Initial looking into pricing suggests it might be cheaper to replace it with a rebuilt one that repair mine. The crank will get sent to a shop to be checked and ground if necessary, as oversize bearings are available in increments of .010, .020, and .030.

As a note of interest, they provided different voltages and amperages for the old glow plug system than the numbers bantered about here, in this thread.

Also, taking note of what startinghandle said about the crack, I will torque the head in smaller increments to lessen the impact of the increasing strain on the weld, if necessary. I usually do it in 3 steps unless otherwise directed.

 

[X344chap]

If the tractor is hard to start with the original glow plugs - and you have checked that all the glow plugs are working - then there is something wrong with the tractor - compression, timing or fuel.
New glow plugs wont fix this. I have 3 working IH tractors and all of them start off the glow plugs. None of them have had complete replacement liners and pistons. I've never taken the crank out of any of them. If you have good oil pressure and you have measured the journals and they are within spec - then you don't need to do this. The IH Blue Ribbon Service manual gives you all the specifications and instructions on how to check everything - ive copied a page from the B275 manual below.

I would be cautious about drilling out a glow plug to use as an adapter for new glow plugs. If the core comes out under load then it will come out like a bullet.

 

[averageguy54]

What would be under pressure in a glow plug? My understanding of their makeup is solid pieces inside a solid sleeve. I've never seen anything in a cross-section that would lead me to believe there was pressure.

 

[tomlad]

Pressure presumably is coming from the combustion chamber, which hopefully will be quite high

 

[X344chap]

Indirect injection - theres a little precombustion chamber - the glow plug screws into the head and the wire pokes through a small hole into the precombustion chamber. The injector sprays directly onto the glow plug hot wire. Compression at 200rpm is about 330-335 psi IIRC so the glow plug (or anything screwed into the glow plug body) must be able to withstand this. If the combustion chambers are replaced then you need to ensure that the holes are correctly aligned with the glow plug wires - or you can short them out. Trivia time - the original combustion chambers had a round hole leading to the cylinder but the later ones had a T shaped hole to get a better spray pattern.

 

[averageguy54]

I understand now what you mean.

 

[averageguy54]

Just an update, no good news I'm afraid. I ordered a bushing on-line to use instead of drilling out a glow plug. Spent 15 pounds and it's no good. Turned out it was for hydraulics so wouldn't tighten enough to seal and get a reading. In the process I found one glow plug that is totally burnt out so it is going to get sacrificed.

 

[startinghandle]

I would suggest forgetting al about compression test if you have faulty glow plug and fit 4 new glow plugs original type and check circuit
When I worked at main IH dealer no compression tests were ever done as blowing from oil filler and dipstick tube
Was good enough indication of engine condition!!
I won't have to wait too long for contradictory replies!!!!!'

 

[averageguy54]

Well, over here new original style glow plugs are 35-40 pounds each. A new switch is 90 pounds. I haven't found a price for a pepper pot yet. I can upgrade to a parallel system where I can get rid of the pepper pot, use a solenoid from a
Ford that costs 17 pounds with a toggle switch and 4 bushings that cost 6 pounds each to convert from M18x1.5 to M10x1, and use some GM glow plugs that fit 6.2 and 6.5 diesels and cost a little over 2 pounds.This thread also works with VW Jetta plugs at 12 pounds each. So I'm going to convert. I'm hoping to find the bushings locally so while I'm looking to get that done I'm still working on the compression as I feel there is enough blow by at the filler and dip stick to warrant it.
I've gotten interrupted by work. A good friend needs a truck driver for 3-4 weeks so I've been a bit busy, 11 hour days.

 

[startinghandle]

Full set of pistons and liners and gaskets needed to carry out overhaul can be purchased for under 200 pounds in uk and I would say glowplugs for under 10 pounds
I would say for driving your mates truck your wages would be more than enough to carry out full engine overhaul but it is your tractor and up to you what you do

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

go to your local motor factors, or auto part store, ask for " Febi BilStein 17215" heater plugs, they should be cheaper and a direct fit, but need to be wired parallel, and just use the old heater switch as that will be fine

 

[averageguy54]

I'm getting to that point in life when my working days are likely numbered so I'm trying to get things set so I can keep going on less money. An engine overhaul and glow plug overhaul will keep the tractor going as long as I will need it and now I can afford to do it. 10 years from now, I won't be able to afford to fix it and I'll have no tractor. That's why I'm looking at making the glow plug system affordable now instead of accurate to the tractor.

I'm doing the same thing with my old truck, 1987 GMC 6.2 diesel. It just got a 740 pound rebuilt transmission and I have a 920 pound rebuilt injector pump to go on it. Both of them lasted over 300,000 kms. This should keep it going as long as I can use it.

I'd rather get these things done when I can still afford to do it.

I'll check into those plugs here on Wednesday. I have a couple appointments so no truck driving that day. Not sure what truck driving pays over there, but I get 11 pounds/hour for this job, which is a decent wage for a small contractor.

 

[X344chap]

Just an update, no good news I'm afraid. I ordered a bushing on-line to use instead of drilling out a glow plug. Spent 15 pounds and it's no good. Turned out it was for hydraulics so wouldn't tighten enough to seal and get a reading. In the process I found one glow plug that is totally burnt out so it is going to get sacrificed.

If one plug is burned out - then none of the plugs are working as they are wired in series. The BD144 engine will not start without heating it.

How do you know its burned out - is the loop on the end physically broken or have you used a multimeter to check continuity? PS dont be tempted to connect the glow plug to 12v to test it out. The plugs are 1.5v each - the pepper pot resistor reduces the voltage by 6v. More info on the plugs here:-
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/international-b275-help-required.217124/page-2

 

[averageguy54]

Yes, I know, but it always started easily with a "little sniff" of ether but it doesn't do that anymore so that's why the compression check.

The end is burnt off the plug in question. Your link was an interesting read, can never have too much information. One of the links is still good and those prices, including shipping are cheaper than here.

 

[averageguy54]

Finally managed to get a compression test done , sort of anyway. Had to do it cold since I didn't feel like putting it all back together from last time. Anyway, the cold engine showed barely 225 lbs compression. While not great, it isn't that bad either, I'm guessing if the engine was warmed up it would probably be in the 250-275 range. So on to the glow plug conversion and we'll double check the valve lash while we're at it.

I haven't been able to find a supplier yet for the Febi Bilstein plugs over here although I see they do have a Canadian office so I'll be sending an e-mail. The old Mercedes 190 plugs cross reference over here to an NGK plug but the threads are wrong, M12x1.5.

 

[X344chap]

Was it 225 across all the cylinders or was one worse than the rest?

B275 manual says compression should be 480 to 520 psi at 1875 rpm

I think someone told me that this was 330 to 355 psi at cranking speed.

 

[averageguy54]

One of the links that was posted in here suggested 330-355 was normal, so I was working with that number. compression was 225 across the board, none really much worse or much better.
On the glow plugs, Febi Canada hasn't answered back about the glow plug number I got Pennine Ploughing. I contacted the seller for the McCormick conversion kit and he hasn't answered either. Right now I'm trying to get in touch with a manufacturer of a bushing that goes from 18x1.5 down to 10x1. If he doesn't answer, it'll be a trip to the auto parts store and a tap set will come home. I think I'll be done work next week, finally.