B414 still a PITA

[mikep]

Hi
The blasted B414 still wont start its the injector pump and even though the sticky pistons have been freed off
and completely resealed the injectors only puts out a stream of fuel not a mist. If you try to screw the needles down you get nothing so...
Can anyone tell me what head and rotor the pump has

The numbers on it are.
R24004 RG
0538
47/900/4/2200.

I can get one from China for £35 which although maybe not Delphi quality will probably last long enough for me.

Thanks
mikep

P.S unless anyone has a good pump at sensible money?

 

[startinghandle]

Have you fitted new filter?
Are glow plugs working?
Is stop control fully returning?
Is lift pump working?
I remember some years ago someone having similar problems but was able to start engine by gently tapping pump with spanner while pressing starter ...worth a try!!

 

[mikep]

Have you fitted new filter?
Are glow plugs working?
Is stop control fully returning?
Is lift pump working?
I remember some years ago someone having similar problems but was able to start engine by gently tapping pump with spanner while pressing starter ...worth a try!!

Yes to all. pump stripped and rebuil tevrything free but just not fine mist fuel getting through. We've towed it around and around, heated, ether and all but not one puff of its own.

 

[startinghandle]

Could actual fuel be "dead" or are you using new fuel?

 

[startinghandle]

Have you cleaned air filter ? And is precleaner clear

 

[mikep]

Have you cleaned air filter ? And is precleaner clear

New fuel tank flushed out, air cleaner fine tried without as well.

 

[startinghandle]

what about liftpump and injectors?
And that's about my lot!!!!

 

[X344chap]

Have you gone through the pump as per the videos on youtube? Start at the lift pump and check it again. New clean fuel - should squirt out the bleed screw on the pump when you crank it. Check pump inlet filter, the transfer pressure piston and sleeve, the carbon brushes on the transfer pump. I had to have 2 goes to get mine sorted. Then back into the metering head - plungers, rollers shoes and the cam ring. If in doubt replace - parts are not expensive. Check the metering valve for dirt and the shut off lever. Btw - have you checked that you dont just have duff injectors? No amount of adjustment will sort a badly worn nozzle. New nozzles are the way to go if there is any doubt. If the pump pressure is too low then they shouldnt pop off at all - you should be getting nothing from the injectors. Are you heating it before cranking? Any smoke from the exhaust? Does a puff of ether get it going?

 

[Ley253]

The fuel jet from the injectors is nothing to do with the pump. Its is an injector fault. Injectors cannot be home serviced, dismantling/assembling them, and setting requires special fluids and machinery.

 

[mikep]

The fuel jet from the injectors is nothing to do with the pump. Its is an injector fault. Injectors cannot be home serviced, dismantling/assembling them, and setting requires special fluids and machinery.

That's what I thought but the spray pattern depends on pressure and speed. Enough pressure too slowly can result in a squirt not spray. I'm beginning to wonder if it's possible to put the cam ring in the wrong way round.

 

[mikep]

Have you gone through the pump as per the videos on youtube? Start at the lift pump and check it again. New clean fuel - should squirt out the bleed screw on the pump when you crank it. Check pump inlet filter, the transfer pressure piston and sleeve, the carbon brushes on the transfer pump. I had to have 2 goes to get mine sorted. Then back into the metering head - plungers, rollers shoes and the cam ring. If in doubt replace - parts are not expensive. Check the metering valve for dirt and the shut off lever. Btw - have you checked that you dont just have duff injectors? No amount of adjustment will sort a badly worn nozzle. New nozzles are the way to go if there is any doubt. If the pump pressure is too low then they shouldnt pop off at all - you should be getting nothing from the injectors. Are you heating it before cranking? Any smoke from the exhaust? Does a puff of ether get it going?

New nozzles fitted was hoping to try an injector on a known good pump but they're the wrong thread unfortunately.

 

[X344chap]

The fuel jet from the injectors is nothing to do with the pump. Its is an injector fault. Injectors cannot be home serviced, dismantling/assembling them, and setting requires special fluids and machinery.

Cannot is a bit of a strong word - yes the injectors can be serviced at home by anyone with a reasonable degree of technical ability. You dont require special fluids. You can replace the nozzles without any special equipment if you are not faffing with the spring pressure - but if you want them exact - you can get a pressure tester for £90 off ebay. If you do this yourself a couple of times - then the tester pays for itself.

 

[X344chap]

That's what I thought but the spray pattern depends on pressure and speed. Enough pressure too slowly can result in a squirt not spray. I'm beginning to wonder if it's possible to put the cam ring in the wrong way round.

Theres an arrow on the cam ring IIRC - so i'm guessing its there to remind you to put it in the correct way....

Yes - the manual states to note the direction of the arrow to aid in reassembly - the arrow points in the direction that the pump turns.

 

[Ley253]

Cannot is a bit of a strong word - yes the injectors can be serviced at home by anyone with a reasonable degree of technical ability. You dont require special fluids. You can replace the nozzles without any special equipment if you are not faffing with the spring pressure - but if you want them exact - you can get a pressure tester for £90 off ebay. If you do this yourself a couple of times - then the tester pays for itself.

Having played with injectors from perkins to submarine engines, for safety, you need special calibrating fluid, which does not do the harm diesel does when it penetrates your skin! Pintle nozzles have to be set on a rotary tester, as speed does have an effect, other types are not speed sensitive, or diesel shop workers would have arms like Garth from working the tester! Any streaks in the spray these days means new nozzle, the days of regrinding seats and valves are past, and I for one am not sorry, it was a long and often frustrating job

 

[X344chap]

Having played with injectors from perkins to submarine engines, for safety, you need special calibrating fluid, which does not do the harm diesel does when it penetrates your skin! Pintle nozzles have to be set on a rotary tester, as speed does have an effect, other types are not speed sensitive, or diesel shop workers would have arms like Garth from working the tester! Any streaks in the spray these days means new nozzle, the days of regrinding seats and valves are past, and I for one am not sorry, it was a long and often frustrating job

I absolutely agree with needing to protect yourself from fluid injection injury - however i dont think that calibration fluid provides protection from that - its a mix of kerosene,petrol and small amount of ethanol - this is taken from the COSHH data sheet for Delphi HAD400 calibration fluid. I'm running 4 tractors with either BD144 or BD154 engines and the £90 bench test rig has saved a load of time and money. I agree with the new nozzle comment - although the earlier workshop manuals showing grinding seats etc shows the amount of tolerance allowed in older engines.

 

[startinghandle]

I absolutely agree with needing to protect yourself from fluid injection injury - however i dont think that calibration fluid provides protection from that - its a mix of kerosene,petrol and small amount of ethanol - this is taken from the COSHH data sheet for Delphi HAD400 calibration fluid. I'm running 4 tractors with either BD144 or BD154 engines and the £90 bench test rig has saved a load of time and money.

Excuse me asking but what do you use these 4 old tractors for

 

[Ley253]

All I can

I absolutely agree with needing to protect yourself from fluid injection injury - however i dont think that calibration fluid provides protection from that - its a mix of kerosene,petrol and small amount of ethanol - this is taken from the COSHH data sheet for Delphi HAD400 calibration fluid. I'm running 4 tractors with either BD144 or BD154 engines and the £90 bench test rig has saved a load of time and money. I agree with the new nozzle comment - although the earlier workshop manuals showing grinding seats etc shows the amount of tolerance allowed in older engines.

say about the fluid was that it was a Shell product, and it was mandatory to use it due to health concerns. Fusas oil was I believe the name, but memory is poor these days. I escaped the RN in 74, and my diesel shop work finished then .

 

[mikep]

Having played with injectors from perkins to submarine engines, for safety, you need special calibrating fluid, which does not do the harm diesel does when it penetrates your skin! Pintle nozzles have to be set on a rotary tester, as speed does have an effect, other types are not speed sensitive, or diesel shop workers would have arms like Garth from working the tester! Any streaks in the spray these days means new nozzle, the days of regrinding seats and valves are past, and I for one am not sorry, it was a long and often frustrating job

The B414 has pintle nozzles that's why I think it may be the pump as the nozzles are new and the needles looked fine on close inspection. They put out a jet but if the spring was tightened 1/8 of a turn it stopped so this also tells me the nozzles are good as no amount of spring pressure will seal a pitted needle.
I will check the pump cam ring as that is my main hope otherwise it's probably head and rotor.

 

[X344chap]

Excuse me asking but what do you use these 4 old tractors for

26 acre smallholding. Used on the tedder, harrows, fertiliser spinner, mconnell ditcher, muck speader, general carting, sawbench - that sort of thing. Plus its a bit of an obsession - you know how it is. Every one needs to be saved.

 

[X344chap]

The B414 has pintle nozzles that's why I think it may be the pump as the nozzles are new and the needles looked fine on close inspection. They put out a jet but if the spring was tightened 1/8 of a turn it stopped so this also tells me the nozzles are good as no amount of spring pressure will seal a pitted needle.
I will check the pump cam ring as that is my main hope otherwise it's probably head and rotor.

Check the shoes and rollers as well - also clean the plungers again - i had it all apart twice before it started to pump. When did this tractor run last?