Bare minimum N rates

[Neddy flanders]

What yield will you budget for with that rate?

probably the same as if i had applied 175kgN. rain limits yield or makes it here. not fert.

 

[Case290]

My thoughts on it drop the spring crops this yr to fallow and use that n for carry over. To wet here to plant anything for at least 2 weeks anyway.

 

[Gator_boy9]

I’m also interested to see how zero-till direct drilling is going to effect nitrogen rates using Urea. Going by last year’s results, I don’t need as much. probably IRO 20% less to get the same yield as my old plough based system. However, that carryover effect of Urea, might be the reason, insofar as by not disturbing the soil profile (and burying it), might actually be making more available from the previous year.

One thing I have certainly noticed is that where muck was applied and not buried by cultivations, There is a definitely a big carry over into the following year.

This land has a definite max yield potential when conventionally farmed depending on the year. We do well in dryer years and RB209 is at least 20% above what we must apply. If we go over this amount, we go way above the N response curve and yields go down.

So @Gator_boy9 , I too am seriously considering

I’m also interested to see how zero-till direct drilling is going to effect nitrogen rates using Urea. Going by last year’s results, I don’t need as much. probably IRO 20% less to get the same yield as my old plough based system. However, that carryover effect of Urea, might be the reason, insofar as by not disturbing the soil profile (and burying it), might actually be making more available from the previous year.

One thing I have certainly noticed is that where muck was applied and not buried by cultivations, There is a definitely a big carry over into the following year.

This land has a definite max yield potential when conventionally farmed depending on the year. We do well in dryer years and RB209 is at least 20% above what we must apply. If we go over this amount, we go way above the N response curve and yields go down.

So @Gator_boy9 , I too am seriously considering saving a chuck of my Urea fertiliser over to 2023.
But not as much as half, because it was bought in the lower £400’s and I don’t want to lose out on a decent yield with High grain prices in the same year.

This is the thing, I’ve got no idea what to expect if we went below 100kgn/ha I think it’s too big of a risk for us. Wish we’d done trials before to see

 

[Hindsight]

My thoughts on it drop the spring crops this yr to fallow and use that n for carry over. To wet here to plant anything for at least 2 weeks anyway.

But your fallow will collect beggar all nitrogen. The market price for barley is likely to be over £200, so a crop of spring barley with 50 kg N yielding just 5 to 6/ton hectare will be profitable. I am just puzzled why so many on tff are reacting to high grain prices by wanting to Fallow.?

 

[Case290]

I can’t get 5t ha with 50kg/n

 

[Flatland guy]

But your fallow will collect beggar all nitrogen. The market price for barley is likely to be over £200, so a crop of spring barley with 50 kg N yielding just 5 to 6/ton hectare will be profitable. I am just puzzled why so many on tff are reacting to high grain prices by wanting to Fallow.?

I thought that was good business sense, restrict a market whilst at its highs to stay at its high, less is more.

High prices....reading through a few of pages on and off and traders are not buying in a very big way, so if the traders are not buying when prices are high many must be thinking that it is going to crash, I presume they are factoring in the worse case scenario now and if conditions alter the price falls. If you have not got nitrogen etc and limited budgets what is the point spending when currently not many are willing to buy, effectively the trade are making every one negative , if not buying due to price why do I have to buy fert etc.

If you can be profitable are you going to be renting these extra fallow acres for spring barley, win win for everyone they can get a nice rent for land, you grow a crop of profitable spring barley.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Everyone seems to be thinking of cutting back N.

Changed my mind. Yields will be down. Sticking to normal N rate, as grain price will be sky high.

On second thought, many of the big grain producing countries probably expect much lower yields than UK, so use much less N, therefore they might not cut back much, and still get reasonable yields.

So I'm back to my 4/5ths of normal rate, then keep a bit of product over to next season. And double livestock numbers to cut fert bill.

Edit. But if UK farmers cut rates we might be importers of feed grains. So changed mind again, going for normal N rate.

 

[Spencer]

Check
Check
Check

ALL IN.....!!

 

[Hindsight]

I can’t get 5t ha with 50kg/n

OK. sounds like fallow. Beans no good? No need for N?

 

[Hindsight]

I thought that was good business sense, restrict a market whilst at its highs to stay at its high, less is more.

High prices....reading through a few of pages on and off and traders are not buying in a very big way, so if the traders are not buying when prices are high many must be thinking that it is going to crash, I presume they are factoring in the worse case scenario now and if conditions alter the price falls. If you have not got nitrogen etc and limited budgets what is the point spending when currently not many are willing to buy, effectively the trade are making every one negative , if not buying due to price why do I have to buy fert etc.

If you can be profitable are you going to be renting these extra fallow acres for spring barley, win win for everyone they can get a nice rent for land, you grow a crop of profitable spring barley.

Yep, valid point. Time will tell. Cheers.

 

[will l]

On our droughty brash the weather has a bigger say than N applied, I think.
I have put on 55kgN on everything at the weekend, as Piamon. Shall put same on again when lambing winding down, and I have enough Lithan in stock for 1 cwt/ac thereafter.
That will be it; and I'm wondering about keeping the Lithan for 2023.

Grow the crop and store that not the fert

 

[farmerm]

But your fallow will collect beggar all nitrogen. The market price for barley is likely to be over £200, so a crop of spring barley with 50 kg N yielding just 5 to 6/ton hectare will be profitable. I am just puzzled why so many on tff are reacting to high grain prices by wanting to Fallow.?

Spring barley is not a great entry into wheat....

 

[crazy_bull]

This year I wouldn’t be cutting back, next year for sure! With the Black Sea situation not looking like it will be solved any time soon, this is surely the year where we have good crops and yields where everyone else doesn’t . And therefore high yield and prices?

the following year with what figures are on offer at the moment yes, 50-75% application rates.

C B

 

[yellow belly]

if fertiliser is 1000 a tonne next year then this years fertiliser is worth 1000 a tonne less storage prices

at1000 a tonne the top 50 kg n per ha costs 150 per ha
it might yield 0.4 tonnes per ha at 300 a tonne 120 per ha a LOSS of 30 per ha

at 220 per tonne for wheat 88 per ha fertiliser needs to be under 600 per tonne

it is easy for grain traders and fertiliser sellers to say put the normal amount on but they are not having to take the loss

 

[Secret Agronomist]

But if we cut back from say 190kg/ha, which will give 8-9t/ha "here" to 160 what other inputs could I save?
Could I get more bang for the buck by mixing some of my liquid in with each spray timing?
Say cut back to 100kg applied as fert and then add 4 doses of 10kg each time I go through. That would be a total of 140kg/ha N for wheat. So about 40L/ha each time in a total of 150 to 200L/ha spray solution. Any physical issues with that? I would also save 1 pass of the sprayer through the field. But what else could I reduce, PGR? a bit of fungicide? Neither of those is going to be a big saving but every little helps.
It all come back to what you think the future will bring, if we get to 300 for 22 harvest crop then any loss in yield is a big hit, similiarly if you are paying £1000/t for AN for 23 but wheat is 300 then margin still looks ok, of course your fuel costs will have risen as well.
So "Do you feel lucky punk" is the best analysis! I could have enough N for 2 years if I halved it but that would be 75 on rye and s. barley and 95kg on wheat!!!!!!

 

[SilliamWhale]

But if we cut back from say 190kg/ha, which will give 8-9t/ha "here" to 160 what other inputs could I save?
Could I get more bang for the buck by mixing some of my liquid in with each spray timing?
Say cut back to 100kg applied as fert and then add 4 doses of 10kg each time I go through. That would be a total of 140kg/ha N for wheat. So about 40L/ha each time in a total of 150 to 200L/ha spray solution. Any physical issues with that? I would also save 1 pass of the sprayer through the field. But what else could I reduce, PGR? a bit of fungicide? Neither of those is going to be a big saving but every little helps.
It all come back to what you think the future will bring, if we get to 300 for 22 harvest crop then any loss in yield is a big hit, similiarly if you are paying £1000/t for AN for 23 but wheat is 300 then margin still looks ok, of course your fuel costs will have risen as well.
So "Do you feel lucky punk" is the best analysis! I could have enough N for 2 years if I halved it but that would be 75 on rye and s. barley and 95kg on wheat!!!!!!

I wouldn't be looking to save on fungicide unless the conditions allow you, I don't think a reduction in N from 190 to 160 will allow you any fungicide grace.

 

[Steevo]

I wouldn't be looking to save on fungicide unless the conditions allow you, I don't think a reduction in N from 190 to 160 will allow you any fungicide grace.

Agreed. Better to grow one good crop this year with full N and full chem.

Splitting the fert and growing half a crop this year and half a crop next year would halve the fert cost but still need same chem cost per year so total costs for similar yield would be higher. There are almost zero chemical costs to fallow.

 

[yellow belly]

Agreed. Better to grow one good crop this year with full N and full chem.

Splitting the fert and growing half a crop this year and half a crop next year would halve the fert cost but still need same chem cost per year so total costs for similar yield would be higher. There are almost zero chemical costs to fallow.

halving the fertiliser does not halve the yield

all the data shows a 50 kg n reduction from optimum reduces yield by 0.4 t per ha on wheat

 

[Nitrams]

Good crops are always the cheapest to grow. The skill is knowing whats required to get it.

 

[Steevo]

halving the fertiliser does not halve the yield

all the data shows a 50 kg n reduction from optimum reduces yield by 0.4 t per ha on wheat

Halving the chems too might well do though.