Barley and Defy

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
I would at the very least get the chem reps to come and have a look. You will feel better for ranting at someone!
Have you paid for the product? If you haven't they might become more interested in resolving your issue.......
You shouldn't have to pay for something that killed your crop anyway!
 

IamCrusoe

New Member
I've never tried Defy post-em on barley but it is on the label after all. As others have said, can you check your spray records for what you may have had in the tank previously?

I would be tempted to at the very least speak to your local BASF and Syngenta reps, explain the situation and ask them to come and have a look. If you aren't sure who they are, your agronomist should know and be able to get in touch with them. However, manufacturers are quite good at putting every warning/restriction under the sun onto product labels...Crystal label for example "Do not use on stoney or gravelly soils".

No approval from either syngenta or BASF for this mix so they wont be overly interested i suspect. if the spray sheet said apply pre-em and was not applied pre-em then it will probably be viewed as operator error unfortunately. defy is approved on its own post-em but the mix of the 2 post on a barley crop is way too hot. Combine that with weather stress and its not going to be a good outcome.

if brome was target i am not sure 2 of each would be enough anyway id say you would want at least full rate crystal + mixer.
 

RAF

Member
Location
staffs
At some point before the sprayers has had Cleravo in also Centurion Max not at the same time though , sprayer will have been well washed. is either of these likely to hang in the tank and do the damage ?
Thank u
 

IamCrusoe

New Member
At some point before the sprayers has had Cleravo in also Centurion Max not at the same time though , sprayer will have been well washed. is either of these likely to hang in the tank and do the damage ?
Thank u

Always possible but if you have followed correct procedure for wash out then no reason to think that.
 

RAF

Member
Location
staffs
We think now that the defy has acted as a tank clearer . Removing the residue of the cleravo from round the tank , thus killing the barley . After the cleravo I washed out using all clear extra , which they now tell me is not enough ? Then been in other crops using other chemicals , but it’s putting the defy in to do the barley that’s fetched the residue off ?
 

Flat 10

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Fen Edge
We think now that the defy has acted as a tank clearer . Removing the residue of the cleravo from round the tank , thus killing the barley . After the cleravo I washed out using all clear extra , which they now tell me is not enough ? Then been in other crops using other chemicals , but it’s putting the defy in to do the barley that’s fetched the residue off ?
Does the cleravo have specific tank wash instructions then?
 

Ugo79

Member
Location
The Shire
Defy is a 'well wetted' formulation so in theory it might aid removal of residue from a sprayer.

Centurion Max is also good at removing residue and I have often seen DFF bleaching in rape crops where Centurion Max applications follow cereal residual tank mixes.

It would be useful to know the sequence and contents of the previous two tank mixes before you sprayed the ill-fated barley crop?

For the record Syngenta do support (*with caveats) a peri-em application of Defy 2.0 + Crystal 4.0 but as others have said Defy can be a bit harsh on soft barley plants.
 
With the implication of imazamox being involved there is no surprise that the stuff is dead. Tiny amounts of this active will kill cereals as dead as a post and the weather being as it was would have slowed the effects which explains the protracted nature of the problem.

Defy is a hot bottle and so is clethodim, either of them probably would strip any residue from a tank or filters quite nicely.
 
Yes live and learn I suppose , never delt with su till this autumn , found out the hard way .

I would not take it too hard, I bet many people have had similar happen to them, even dedicated spray contractors who have been doing the job for decades. The only real defence is distance between crops, but in the autumn you don't often have that ability as there isn't as much spraying going on.

There must be a surefire recipe for cleaning a sprayer out, I was always told that liquid fertiliser was a good one, and occasionally the guy I worked with would stick the hose from the steam cleaner in the sprayer with what I believed was caustic soda to clean his out?
 

binbusy

Member
Location
South Suffolk
What rate Crystal did you use? We Never have done any more than 2L/ha for barley going in with defy as well is very hot.
Did you drill it deep enough? Crystal will bite anything shallow drilled on gravel land so pays to drill deeper knowing this.
Some plants will survive, I’d be tempted to drill into it with some spring barley just to thicken it up.
 
With the implication of imazamox being involved there is no surprise that the stuff is dead. Tiny amounts of this active will kill cereals as dead as a post and the weather being as it was would have slowed the effects which explains the protracted nature of the problem.

Defy is a hot bottle and so is clethodim, either of them probably would strip any residue from a tank or filters quite nicely.

Didn't know imazamox was so potent. Used Nirvana a few times never thought it would affect Barley overly
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
Cleravo + Dash in the osr crop virtually kills all cereal volunteers. I must say I'm surprised that traces of it could do this!
 

RAF

Member
Location
staffs
Used 2 litres of each , that’s what they think as happened as the next tank I did on the barley has really checked it but not killed it dead like the first .
 

Ugo79

Member
Location
The Shire
Like Brisel I’m surprised traces of Imazamox could be so lethal.
Was the spraying sequence Cleravo (triple rinse washout) followed by the Crystal+Defy mix or was there another spray/mix inbetween these treatments?
 

Tealo

Member
Location
Ipswich
I put 2 lit of defy on a late deep drilled lightland W.barley pre em and it knocked it for six. I personally won't use it on barley here again.
 

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