Basic Fencing Questions

[iain123]

Hello Forum

Netting and wire question Mild Steel vs HT
Due to lack of experience, of working with HT.
If I do not get the netting or wire tensioned up enough, will HT netting and wire fair any worse as a fence for sheep when compared to mild steel?

The plan is to get the netting and wire tensioned correctly, but if this does not happen as hoped/or at first, will HT make a worse job as a fence to mild steel?

As the HT netting and wire offerings often come with a longer life expectancy and do not seem to cost considerably much more.
Have been contemplating the Tornado torus R8/80/22 or X fence netting.

Getting the strainers in deep is where I currently envisage difficulties especially with the HT as they need to be driven in or dug in deep etc.


iain

 

[ARW]

HT will stay tighter longer but you still have to get it tight.
your struts are just as important as the strainer, if your strainers move as you tighten then you won’t get it tight

 

[iain123]

Hello ARW,
Yes, I agree that the struts/braces form an important part of the Strainer setup,
if done right, transferring the load away from pulling the strainer out of the ground.
Digging the T trench for the strut is not as difficult as digging the 1.2 meter hole for each strainer.

 

[HarryB97]

8-80-22 is a great net and easier to work with as well as cheaper than traditional 8-80-15. As long as you buy some straining clamps then tensioning is very easy. If you are concerned about the depth of your strainers you could pay a local contractor to hit them in and you wire up? Or hire a post hole borer and then tamp the soil back around the strainer. You could always use box strainers if you are worried about the depth of your strainers.

 

[Longlowdog]

Look to Youtube to teach you how to create stays for strainers. A simple 3 tonne ratchet strap will be better than nothing for tensioning but 'monkey pullers' are better and don't really wear out. A set of pullers and a clamp for the rylock and a wire tensioner bar tool will get you a long way in fencing. Set up 2 metres away from the end, pull the long stretch tight to the next strainer then pull the tail end as tight as you can with what ever tools at your disposal even a wire tensioner bar and staple it then release the long stretch. This would be the simple, cheap way to fence if you weren't making it your day job.

 

[iain123]

Hello Harry
Thank you for your encouraging and friendly advice.
I was thinking of getting a fencing contractor to knock the strainers in, but getting access to where some of the strainers will need to go I do not think it will be easy.
Maybe if I use all the different methods that is get some of the strainers knocked in and dig/bore holes for the less assessable strainers I will get there,
it's just a bit daunting at present.

 

[Goweresque]

I'm no fencing expert but I've had a lot of fencing erected over the last few years and I can categorically say that HT is the way to go. Mild steel loses tension pretty quickly it seems, while HT put up previously still looks good. I won't be using anything but HT in future.

 

[Dry Rot]

Doesn't mild steel stretch and that's why it loses tension?

As a human magpie, I noticed some apparently new coils of wire at the local rubbish dump (this was years ago!). When I tried to tension the fence I put up with it, it just stretched! So even mild steel fencing wire is tempered to some degree. I've noticed 2.5mm HT used for permanent electric fencing can vary, some is more difficult to twist at a join than others. Don't know the specs as I don't do enough fencing to bother, but HT all the time.

 

[JohnGalway]

Getting the strainers in deep is where I currently envisage difficulties especially with the HT as they need to be driven in or dug in deep etc.

Digging the T trench for the strut is not as difficult as digging the 1.2 meter hole for each strainer.

What's the specific problem with depth for the strainers? Is it that there actually isn't any before you hit bedrock or is it digging the hole? You can buy special spades for digging post holes narrow and deep - they work very well. Doesn't matter much what wire you use if strainers are wonky IMO. I've some contrary ground so sometimes need to be a little creative.

Just for general info
Study this thread, there's a wealth of important information on it https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/the-fencing-picture-thread.635/

Mack Rennie page on Facebook is another good source, as are certain YouTube videos - Some are crap so more studying required.

 

[Agrivator]

High tensile is best for netting. But high-tensile barbed wire has a tendency to snap, so mild steel for any barbed wire is preferable.

 

[organicguy]

High tensile is best for netting. But high-tensile barbed wire has a tendency to snap, so mild steel for any barbed wire is preferable.

Sorry, got to disagree, we've never snapped HT barbed wire, can with mild steel.
I believe HT 2.5 breaking strain is 3-4 x Mild steel?

 

[tepapa]

Mild steel barb will sag the first time a cow goes for a scratch. Bloody awful stuff.

 

[tepapa]

HT works best under tension. If your going to cut corners on strainers and struts or just have a low skill level for fencing, then use mild and make it easier for your self.
You can by 8/80/22 in mild netting so don't feel that you need to buy 15 just because that's what the merchant stocks.

 

[Willie adie]

If using mild steel barbed then re use old stuff I've seen me pull it hellish tight.
Id recommended heavy duty ht barbed the lighter stuff I don't believe the cattle see it and it is very easily damaged when pulling,
The light stuff is OK for a bottom line wire or run along the top of rylock

 

[iain123]

Thanks, everyone for your advice and views
I had and am been watching quite a few youtube videos including ones from New Zealand, learning about swinging foots floating braces, and all kinds of exotic terms

 

[iain123]

What's the specific problem with depth for the strainers? Is it that there actually isn't any before you hit bedrock or is it digging the hole? You can buy special spades for digging post holes narrow and deep - they work very well.


Just for general info
Study this thread, there's a wealth of important information on it https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/the-fencing-picture-thread.635/

Mack Rennie page on Facebook is another good source, as are certain YouTube videos - Some are crap so more studying required.

Thanks John for your reply and links
I have dug fairly deep holes here before wide and deep, the soil is often very stony (and they can be quite large stones) if not from the start just after you get through a few inches of topsoil. The wide open hole gives more access to get large stones out. Bedrock shows in places, but never in the holes so far.
I just invisage problems in deep narrow hole getting past the stones.
As you say I need the specific tools to give the job a go post hole digger/scoop and digging bar.

 

[iain123]

HT works best under tension. If your going to cut corners on strainers and struts or just have a low skill level for fencing, then use mild and make it easier for your self.
You can by 8/80/22 in mild netting so don't feel that you need to buy 15 just because that's what the merchant stocks.

Hello Tepapa
This was the kind of information I was after when I posted the original question.
It seems what you are saying HT needs a higher level in skill, install, and tools and if the HT fencing is not strained enough mild steel will give a "better" result than HT.
Due to lack of experience, I do not know if you have the time or can explain in a few words how HT that is not tensioned enough will not behave as well as mild steel in the same situation?
eg will it be more springy, more floppy

 

[tepapa]

Hello Tepapa
This was the kind of information I was after when I posted the original question.
It seems what you are saying HT needs a higher level in skill, install, and tools and if the HT fencing is not strained enough mild steel will give a "better" result than HT.
Due to lack of experience, I do not know if you have the time or can explain in a few words how HT that is not tensioned enough will not behave as well as mild steel in the same situation?
eg will it be more springy, more floppy

Tools needed will be the same but you can't get away with cutting corners on HT. You have to get strainers in deep, at least 4' and if hand dug holes you'll definitely need foot the strainers either with a swinging foot or just a foot block nailed on. Struts need to be at the right height and strutted against a good block not just the first fence post.

The benefits with well tensioned HT is that it'll act like a spring and will regain it's shape after a collision with a branch or bullock. If it isn't up to tension it won't spring back so it's no better than mild which stretches after a collision. Mild steel worked for decades it just needed a bit more maintenance over time to keep it stock proof. Correctly installed HT should take a bit more abuse from stock or nature without the additional maintenance but for that it needs to tight.

 

[Dry Rot]

An ex-GPO linesman gave me a set of the tools they used to put telephone poles in with. Magic! And, no, you are not gtting them!

 

[iain123]

Started to dig my first strainer hole today with the help of the following, so far 3ft deep has been a great help so far. Fingers crossed no large stones are going to get in the way.

Roughneck 17lb Post-Hole Digger - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Hardened and tempered, drop-forged alloy steel. Tamper head and chisel point. Polished tip. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

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