Bayer/Monsanto

[ajd132]

We know what the problems are and glyphosate was a somewhat miraculous solution to many of them and it came with very few in any side effects. Issues that held our forefathers back vanished over night. I call that progress.
There is no need for gen' mod' products in a well organised British marketplace currently but if the vultures have their way and our armoury is depleted then there may be no option. Better the peer reviewed, super scrutinised devil we know than Frankenseeds we don't in my opinion.

I agree with that. I don’t have a problem with stuff like glyphosate, I have a problem with GM seeds that mean massive over use of the stuff, creating more resistance problems, back to square one. Please sir can you sell me another answer to this problem you have created.

 

[ajd132]

The market is going to open up more and cheap[er] food is what sells and our production, however we produce it, is in direct competition with our competitors and therefore even if perchance it cost double to produce, the price will be dictated by the cheapest competitor.
If we cannot compete with perfectly good quality food produced by more efficient means elsewhere, due to domestic luddites and arsewipes adding costs to us here, then there is no prospect of a sustainable agriculture of any scale in the UK. We will be wiped out by more efficient producers. Which is as it should be in any vibrant economy.

I don’t think we will agree on this. Basically you want to be able to buy the answers in from a multi national (like U.K. farming has been doing since the 50’s) and I want to find answers from a systems approach focusing on the free inputs we have, soil biology, air, water, sun and be less beholden to the hope that they give us new stuff to keep the symptoms under control for another couple of years.

 

[Cowabunga]

I agree with that. I don’t have a problem with stuff like glyphosate, I have a problem with GM seeds that mean massive over use of the stuff, creating more resistance problems, back to square one. Please sir can you sell me another answer to this problem you have created.

More resistance to Roundup you mean? Well then just use the chemicals or methods used before roundup. If the use of GM seed doesn't pay in greater yields or lower costs overall, the answer is simple, use conventionally bred seed.

So there are your answers in a nutshell and if you can't understand those answers I suggest you use a farm simulator game on your consul rather than to try and farm yourself. If, and it's a big if, you do farm commercially, you probably use conventional seed currently, so what's your problem? I guess it is that you can't compete, but I further suspect that you are not a farmer or grower at all and have near zero knowledge of this subject, only fanciful notions as demonstrated by your posts thus far.

 

[Cowabunga]

I don’t think we will agree on this. Basically you want to be able to buy the answers in from a multi national (like U.K. farming has been doing since the 50’s) and I want to find answers from a systems approach focusing on the free inputs we have, soil biology, air, water, sun and be less beholden to the hope that they give us new stuff to keep the symptoms under control for another couple of years.

So you want to regress to pre-1950's agriculture, which I should remind you was to food rationing and before that we were less self sufficient and relied on imports even more than we do today.

 

[ajd132]

More resistance to Roundup you mean? Well then just use the chemicals or methods used before roundup. If the use of GM seed doesn't pay in greater yields or lower costs overall, the answer is simple, use conventionally bred seed.

So there are your answers in a nutshell and if you can't understand those answers I suggest you use a farm simulator game on your consul rather than to try and farm yourself. If, and it's a big if, you do farm commercially, you probably use conventional seed currently, so what's your problem? I guess it is that you can't compete, but I further suspect that you are not a farmer or grower at all and have near zero knowledge of this subject, only fanciful notions as demonstrated by your posts thus far.

i farm comercially and conventionally. for multiple customers providing excellent returns benchmarked across a large number of farming businesses. I do not want to carry on being completely beholden to others providing the answers for me, which is what you want. there are many farmers around the country now significantly reducing their pesticide and nitrogen usage and not losing yield by approaching things from a path that involves farm more knowledge and respect for soil biology, nutrition and working within an ecology. We all share information, we do the research ourselves. You sound like a 20th century farming dinosaur who cannot see further than picking up the phone to order something that will hopefully sort a problem out until it breaks out again.

 

[Cowabunga]

i farm comercially and conventionally. for multiple customers providing excellent returns benchmarked across a large number of farming businesses. I do not want to carry on being completely beholden to others providing the answers for me, which is what you want. there are many farmers around the country now significantly reducing their pesticide and nitrogen usage and not losing yield by approaching things from a path that involves farm more knowledge and respect for soil biology, nutrition and working within an ecology. We all share information, we do the research ourselves. You sound like a 20th century farming dinosaur who cannot see further than picking up the phone to order something that will hopefully sort a problem out until it breaks out again.

I don't 'want' anything except the freedom to farm and compete. You farm as you like and let others farm as they like. I'm not telling you or any other farmer how to farm and I'd be obliged if you kept your nose out of how others farm. Simple.

 

[ajd132]

I don't 'want' anything except the freedom to farm and compete. You farm as you like and let others farm as they like. Simple.

i just dont want UK farming to be completely sold out to the likes of bayer. buy the seed, buy the chemical program that they say you have to use to grow said crop. complete loss of autonomy, vertical 'integration. Once its here we have opened pandoras box, no going back. you may aswell be employed by them. read 'chasing the red queen' by andy dyer.

 

[Cowabunga]

i just dont want UK farming to be completely sold out to the likes of bayer. buy the seed, buy the chemical program that they say you have to use to grow said crop. complete loss of autonomy, vertical 'integration. Once its here we have opened pandoras box, no going back. you may aswell be employed by them. read 'chasing the red queen' by andy dyer.

I'd also be obliged if you didn't talk rubbish. Seed has always been subject to patents and levies raised on farm saved seed to pay the breeders. Farmers do not breed new varieties, commercial companies and government agencies do so. Nothing has changed in that respect for over a century. Since plant breeding began in earnest in fact.

 

[Sid]

That is a management choice on the farmer's part. Obviously farmers are not forced to grow food where food is abundant and there are more lucrative markets.



You are living on another planet where reality and practicality is completely at odds with planet Earth where pesticide use has dramatically reduced, or certainly herbicide use had and sometimes insecticide and fungicide also as a result of genetically engineered resistant crops to both direct pets and diseases and herbicide resistant crops like RR ones.
You would have us back to having failed crops if not for more regular and toxic chemical applications. To some utopian past that never ever existed without regular crop failures, shortages and regional starvation.

There are loads of maps showing useage

USGS NAWQA: The Pesticide National Synthesis Project

water.usgs.gov

Pic a pesticide that Roundup has replaced.

 

[Sid]

We know what the problems are and glyphosate was a somewhat miraculous solution to many of them and it came with very few in any side effects. Issues that held our forefathers back vanished over night. I call that progress.
There is no need for gen' mod' products in a well organised British marketplace currently but if the vultures have their way and our armoury is depleted then there may be no option. Better the peer reviewed, super scrutinised devil we know than Frankenseeds we don't in my opinion.

this is 5 years out of date and I have no idea if its been peer reviewed. I would guess not but if even a quarter of theses species are resistant.

How long before we see CIP( crtitcally important pesticides)?

 

[ajd132]

I'd also be obliged if you didn't talk rubbish. Seed has always been subject to patents and levies raised on farm saved seed to pay the breeders. Farmers do not breed new varieties, commercial companies and government agencies do so. Nothing has changed in that respect for over a century. Since plant breeding began in earnest in fact.

oh come on! wake up. they will want to sell 'growing packages' to farmers. you will be a grunt that takes the risk, it already happens abroad. please look into this more.https://www.darrinqualman.com/canadian-net-farm-income/

 

[ajd132]

We need to talk about GM…

In Boris Johnson’s inaugural prime-ministerial speech, the most visible and concerning red flag he voiced was a push for genetic modificati...

farminggeorge.blogspot.com

this is very good

 

[Cowabunga]

oh come on! wake up. they will want to sell 'growing packages' to farmers. you will be a grunt that takes the risk, it already happens abroad. please look into this more.https://www.darrinqualman.com/canadian-net-farm-income/

You swallow the negative propaganda like a child. It is entirely up to the individual farmer whether to use the products or not. It is up to you not to use it but it is NOT up to you to stop others from gaining a competitive advantage over you by dictating to them what they can and cannot use. If the seed company's terms and conditions are not agreeable to you, don't use it, but butt out of my business and what I can use.

 

[Sid]

You swallow the negative propaganda like a child. It is entirely up to the individual farmer whether to use the products or not. It is up to you not to use it but it is NOT up to you to stop others from gaining a competitive advantage over you by dictating to them what they can and cannot use. If the seed company's terms and conditions are not agreeable to you, don't use it, but butt out of my business and what I can use.

what happens when the crop you grow affects my business. Who is it up to pay for the loss of that business?

 

[ajd132]

You swallow the negative propaganda like a child. It is entirely up to the individual farmer whether to use the products or not. It is up to you not to use it but it is NOT up to you to stop others from gaining a competitive advantage over you by dictating to them what they can and cannot use. If the seed company's terms and conditions are not agreeable to you, don't use it, but butt out of my business and what I can use.

it does matter if the GM crops affect my business, theres many cases of this happening, i do not want you to pollute my farm. i am not dictating, i am offering a different viewpoint to you which you dont like so you accuse me of not being a farmer, being a vegan and a troll. i used to think GM would be amazing until I researched the reality of it.

 

[Cowabunga]

View attachment 890981

this is 5 years out of date and I have no idea if its been peer reviewed. I would guess not but if even a quarter of theses species are resistant.

How long before we see CIP( crtitcally important pesticides)?

I have to ask, so what? Weeds and funguses and whatever do develop resistance to all kinds of things over time. It's nothing new. If roundup resistance becomes an issue, just revert to whatever was used before roundup. The vertical trajectory of that chart is quite meaningless of course and is only done in that way for maximum dramatic effect. None of those weeds bother me in any way and none locally are resistant as far as I know. According to that chart Italian Ryegrass was one of the first to gain resistance to Roundup. It isn't exactly rife as far as I can see and Roundup works on every weed that I have used it for, although some obviously require a higher dose rate than others. Nettles, for instance, require a higher concentration and more surfecant than other species, but always have done.

 

[Cowabunga]

what happens when the crop you grow affects my business. Who is it up to pay for the loss of that business?

Prey tell me how it would effect your crop or business in reality. Please tell me how you will compensate me for all the thistle, dock and ragwort seed that blows from your filthy crops into my fields.

 

[Sid]

Prey tell me how it would effect your crop or business in reality. Please tell me how you will compensate me for all the thistle, dock and ragwort seed that blows from your filthy crops into my fields.

I end up with GM plants on my farm. I lose my organic certification and the value of my output drops. Polluters pay.

Why are my crops any filthier than yours? Do tell me how dock seeds spread in the air, that is definitely a new one to me!
I have no ragwort, it's all pulled.
Thistles are dug or topped.

 

[ajd132]

I have to ask, so what? Weeds and funguses and whatever do develop resistance to all kinds of things over time. It's nothing new. If roundup resistance becomes an issue, just revert to whatever was used before roundup. The vertical trajectory of that chart is quite meaningless of course and is only done in that way for maximum dramatic effect. None of those weeds bother me in any way and none locally are resistant as far as I know. According to that chart Italian Ryegrass was one of the first to gain resistance to Roundup. It isn't exactly rife as far as I can see and Roundup works on every weed that I have used it for, although some obviously require a higher dose rate than others. Nettles, for instance, require a higher concentration and more surfecant than other species, but always have done.

incredibly blase' approach. you are literally advocating making problems for ourselves in the future to make things easier for a short while.

 

[Sid]

I have to ask, so what? Weeds and funguses and whatever do develop resistance to all kinds of things over time. It's nothing new. If roundup resistance becomes an issue, just revert to whatever was used before roundup. The vertical trajectory of that chart is quite meaningless of course and is only done in that way for maximum dramatic effect. None of those weeds bother me in any way and none locally are resistant as far as I know. According to that chart Italian Ryegrass was one of the first to gain resistance to Roundup. It isn't exactly rife as far as I can see and Roundup works on every weed that I have used it for, although some obviously require a higher dose rate than others. Nettles, for instance, require a higher concentration and more surfecant than other species, but always have done.

But these crops have become resistant to the previously used pesticides that's why they need roundup ready crops. Are you ignoring the reason why RR crops were brought onto the market?

Higher and higher doses to do the same job? Sounds like resistance to me!