BCS scores

[Jdunn55]

With my new vets as part of a package I have monthly body condition scoring + mobility scoring done by a vet tech. I had the first visit last week and am just trying to work out what to do with the data.

Mobility scoring is easy, anything 3 pick up asap in one big session, score 2 is easy again as I'll just do one per day after milking until the list is done. Whilst there is far too many 2's and 3's for my liking, what is very nice to see is the cows I have trimmed and treated are now down in the 0/1 category which means I must have done something right for once!

BCS is a bit more tricky. The herd is probably averaging 2-2.25 which is too low. There's been lots going on and unfortunately I had very little help last year from the people who were meant to be assisting with nutrition, I won't go into detail because it's not really relevant but will say I have moved to a new team who are a lot more helpful.

Basically the spring calvers who were in calf I cut cake right back last year thinking that was the right thing to do, in-hindsight I should have carried on feeding them more than I did as they have ended up calving in thin resulting in poor milk production, I am also aware that it will now be an uphill battle to get them back in calf. I'm less worried about these as I have time to get them sorted.

The one's I am worried about and could do with some advice on are the in-calf cows. Most are ok BCS wise (3+) but there's a few who are under 2.5 and i would like them be dried off at ideally 3.5. There's 1 scanned at a BCS of 1 and is in-calf (only 10 weeks so still have time to sort her atm but has been milking very, very well). I guess my question is how much cake do I feed the underweight cows to put flesh onto them so they calve in well?
These cows would be due between September and December. There's 1 x 1, 3 x 1.5, 7 x 2 and the rest are over 3 so I'm happy with them. I aim for 12 litres from forage (to give 3600 over a lactation), and then 0.5kg of cake over that per litre. so a 20litre cow would be having 4kg concentrate. But if she's say a 1.5BCS and giving 20 litres, how much cake would you feed? 6kg? Thanks

 

[In the pit]

With my new vets as part of a package I have monthly body condition scoring + mobility scoring done by a vet tech. I had the first visit last week and am just trying to work out what to do with the data.

Mobility scoring is easy, anything 3 pick up asap in one big session, score 2 is easy again as I'll just do one per day after milking until the list is done. Whilst there is far too many 2's and 3's for my liking, what is very nice to see is the cows I have trimmed and treated are now down in the 0/1 category which means I must have done something right for once!

BCS is a bit more tricky. The herd is probably averaging 2-2.25 which is too low. There's been lots going on and unfortunately I had very little help last year from the people who were meant to be assisting with nutrition, I won't go into detail because it's not really relevant but will say I have moved to a new team who are a lot more helpful.

Basically the spring calvers who were in calf I cut cake right back last year thinking that was the right thing to do, in-hindsight I should have carried on feeding them more than I did as they have ended up calving in thin resulting in poor milk production, I am also aware that it will now be an uphill battle to get them back in calf. I'm less worried about these as I have time to get them sorted.

The one's I am worried about and could do with some advice on are the in-calf cows. Most are ok BCS wise (3+) but there's a few who are under 2.5 and i would like them be dried off at ideally 3.5. There's 1 scanned at a BCS of 1 and is in-calf (only 10 weeks so still have time to sort her atm but has been milking very, very well). I guess my question is how much cake do I feed the underweight cows to put flesh onto them so they calve in well?
These cows would be due between September and December. There's 1 x 1, 3 x 1.5, 7 x 2 and the rest are over 3 so I'm happy with them. I aim for 12 litres from forage (to give 3600 over a lactation), and then 0.5kg of cake over that per litre. so a 20litre cow would be having 4kg concentrate. But if she's say a 1.5BCS and giving 20 litres, how much cake would you feed? 6kg? Thanks

I hate to say this but you need a cow to fit the system .if there to be dried of as autumn calving animals and are low body score there’s something way wrong ,with the dm of the grass over the last month this should of fattened your cattle without cake .thin cows dry off early and give them 3 months dry
Cows need to calve at condition score 3 and heifers at 3.5 otherwise they won’t milk or get in calf

 

[Jdunn55]

I hate to say this but you need a cow to fit the system .if there to be dried of as autumn calving animals and are low body score there’s something way wrong ,with the dm of the grass over the last month this should of fattened your cattle without cake .thin cows dry off early and give them 3 months dry
Cows need to calve at condition score 3 and heifers at 3.5 otherwise they won’t milk or get in calf

I agree but nutrition has been really awful until the last 2 months. When I moved companies, I should have moved sooner in hindsight but I'm quite loyal unfortunately. There's no point going over what should have been done. Just need to have a plan going forwards to fix the problems caused and prevent them going forwards.

 

[DairyNerd]

With my new vets as part of a package I have monthly body condition scoring + mobility scoring done by a vet tech. I had the first visit last week and am just trying to work out what to do with the data.

Mobility scoring is easy, anything 3 pick up asap in one big session, score 2 is easy again as I'll just do one per day after milking until the list is done. Whilst there is far too many 2's and 3's for my liking, what is very nice to see is the cows I have trimmed and treated are now down in the 0/1 category which means I must have done something right for once!

BCS is a bit more tricky. The herd is probably averaging 2-2.25 which is too low. There's been lots going on and unfortunately I had very little help last year from the people who were meant to be assisting with nutrition, I won't go into detail because it's not really relevant but will say I have moved to a new team who are a lot more helpful.

Basically the spring calvers who were in calf I cut cake right back last year thinking that was the right thing to do, in-hindsight I should have carried on feeding them more than I did as they have ended up calving in thin resulting in poor milk production, I am also aware that it will now be an uphill battle to get them back in calf. I'm less worried about these as I have time to get them sorted.

The one's I am worried about and could do with some advice on are the in-calf cows. Most are ok BCS wise (3+) but there's a few who are under 2.5 and i would like them be dried off at ideally 3.5. There's 1 scanned at a BCS of 1 and is in-calf (only 10 weeks so still have time to sort her atm but has been milking very, very well). I guess my question is how much cake do I feed the underweight cows to put flesh onto them so they calve in well?
These cows would be due between September and December. There's 1 x 1, 3 x 1.5, 7 x 2 and the rest are over 3 so I'm happy with them. I aim for 12 litres from forage (to give 3600 over a lactation), and then 0.5kg of cake over that per litre. so a 20litre cow would be having 4kg concentrate. But if she's say a 1.5BCS and giving 20 litres, how much cake would you feed? 6kg? Thanks

Teagasc have a really good article on how much to feed cows to increase BCS at various stages, will try and send you the link when i get in. In my view you need to get it right, and it is easiest to correct, late lactation and early dry period so you are right to be targeting those cows, it then passes through to hitting target BCS at breeding which is vital.

I would be dying off all those thinner cows early, probably soon for the September calvers, the extra milk is nothing compared to them being in the right BCS at calving.

 

[Jdunn55]

Teagasc have a really good article on how much to feed cows to increase BCS at various stages, will try and send you the link when i get in. In my view you need to get it right, and it is easiest to correct, late lactation and early dry period so you are right to be targeting those cows, it then passes through to hitting target BCS at breeding which is vital.

I would be dying off all those thinner cows early, probably soon for the September calvers, the extra milk is nothing compared to them being in the right BCS at calving.

That would be really handy if you can find it. More than happy to dry them off early if it will help. Would rather lose 200 litres now than 2000 litres next lactation and not get in-calf

 

[In the pit]

I agree but nutrition has been really awful until the last 2 months. When I moved companies, I should have moved sooner in hindsight but I'm quite loyal unfortunately. There's no point going over what should have been done. Just need to have a plan going forwards to fix the problems caused and prevent them going forwards.

What is your nutrition
Grass topped up with cake

 

[Jdunn55]

What is your nutrition
Grass topped up with cake

and some haylege until recently, now more haylege due to dry weather, haylege will be swapped for silage in 2 weeks time and will be less grazing again if we dont get any rain asap

 

[In the pit]

Teagasc have a really good article on how much to feed cows to increase BCS at various stages, will try and send you the link when i get in. In my view you need to get it right, and it is easiest to correct, late lactation and early dry period so you are right to be targeting those cows, it then passes through to hitting target BCS at breeding which is vital.

I would be dying off all those thinner cows early, probably soon for the September calvers, the extra milk is nothing compared to them being in the right BCS at calving.

Bcs is easy ,calve cows in the spring at 3 and heifers at 3.5 and then make sure they don’t loose more than .5 a bcs in the first 4/6 weeks. Dry matter intake is key because grass will be 12 me as cake is

 

[rusty]

I have never seen a cow I would consider to be score 1 body condition. It would be interesting to see a calibration of what they think a score3 is. I wonder if they are been a bit harsh on your condition scores. I think your M+ figures for milk of grass are fine if the grass quality is ok. I am currently working on M+19 for cows and M+15 for heifers.

 

[In the pit]

and some haylege until recently, now more haylege due to dry weather, haylege will be swapped for silage in 2 weeks time and will be less grazing again if we dont get any rain asap

So have the cows lost weight post calving or not had the weight on pre calving which is two different issues

 

[Jdunn55]

I have never seen a cow I would consider to be score 1 body condition. It would be interesting to see a calibration of what they think a score3 is. I wonder if they are been a bit harsh on your condition scores. I think your M+ figures for milk of grass are fine if the grass quality is ok. I am currently working on M+19 for cows and M+15 for heifers.

I've just ran through the list and am not 100% happy with the calibration either.

Theres a cow with a bcs of 2 that i sent off as a cull who killed out at 280kg deadweight and earned me over £1100?

 

[In the pit]

I have never seen a cow I would consider to be score 1 body condition. It would be interesting to see a calibration of what they think a score3 is. I wonder if they are been a bit harsh on your condition scores. I think your M+ figures for milk of grass are fine if the grass quality is ok. I am currently working on M+19 for cows and M+15 for heifers.

M+19 should be easy on spring grass , dm is the variable

 

[Jdunn55]

So have the cows lost weight post calving or not had the weight on pre calving which is two different issues

autumns lost weight post calving and spring calvers didn't have weight pre-calving

 

[Jdunn55]

M+19 should be easy on spring grass , dm is the variable

My feed rep is saying I should be on 10 and maximum of 14 is the best anyone can do!

 

[pappuller]

You are running more than 1 type of cow and expecting a high output from a low input which means that something will need to make up the shortfall and that usually means loss of condition. You will only get out of the cow what you are prepared to put in.

 

[DairyNerd]

My feed rep is saying I should be on 10 and maximum of 14 is the best anyone can do!

They always say that, if they were selling you grass the answer would be different! 20litres is possible from Spring grass, maybe misleading to say it is easy and it gets difficult and often impossible to keep quality and quantity in a dry period like this especially.

 

[frederick]

We are talking about spring grass in the first week of June with no rain in the last 3 weeks. That is not spring grass and also feeding haylage so m+14 would be good going.

However feeding cake to correct condition is tricky as it tends tosimply result in more milk unless you try starving them of protein.

 

[In the pit]

We are talking about spring grass in the first week of June with no rain in the last 3 weeks. That is not spring grass and also feeding haylage so m+14 would be good going.

However feeding cake to correct condition is tricky as it tends tosimply result in more milk unless you try starving them of protein.

Grass should be still 12 me as it should be all the way through
I milked in Dorset and did took weekly grass samples just before grazing ,it never went below 11.8 me from beginning feb to end nov

 

[DairyNerd]

Grass should be still 12 me as it should be all the way through
I milked in Dorset and did took weekly grass samples just before grazing ,it never went below 11.8 me from beginning feb to end nov

Lucky you were not in Dorset last August you would have searched most of the county to find enough grass to fill a sample bag.

 

[In the pit]

Had 10 years there and had to feed silage through the summer 8 times but always had grass in the diet everyday
Helped having 30+% clover and feeding the clover with fert more so than the grass
Surprising how long a prg/ clover leys will last if the clover is 30% not like some people on here with maybe not even 5%