Beef / Lamb & Pig Price Tracker

[Al R]

Thanks, you have helped get the point i have been trying to get across. I wonder to what point you could cut numbers using less fert to make the same overall profit, not easily done without trying it. If we all tried it then production would drop and demand /prices would rise. Unless the sods just imported more

Going off the experience we had when we went organic in 2000, the farm had 900 ewes and around 140 ewe lambs the next year 850, the year after 800 then went to 600 ewes for 4-5 years then crept back up by 30-40 ewes a year. Currently at 850 ewes and 220 ewe lambs plus growing double the corn and more green crop than we have had since before converting. Clover is key though!

 

[Al R]

I think trying to calculate margins on lower input prices is a waste of time
Similarly using less fert or feed ect
Cattle and sheep could be sold in a rougher condition years ago but if you want to be in the game now they really need to look the part

Unless your @Mc115reed

 

[Skintagain]

Years like this I’m glad I’m organic and run most of my conventional land under the same regimes

Be plenty joining you!!

 

[Skintagain]

Going off the experience we had when we went organic in 2000, the farm had 900 ewes and around 140 ewe lambs the next year 850, the year after 800 then went to 600 ewes for 4-5 years then crept back up by 30-40 ewes a year. Currently at 850 ewes and 220 ewe lambs plus growing double the corn and more green crop than we have had since before converting. Clover is key though!

Did the land adjust or did you start putting more clovers in etc?

 

[Al R]

Be plenty joining you!!

Read my post above, their numbers will drop severely unless they already have clover rich leys and don’t use much fert anyway. Plus there is little incentive with no payments for converting now and all organic environmental schemes not taking new contracts and I don’t know of many meat buyers wanting more organic produce either

 

[Northern territory]

Going off the experience we had when we went organic in 2000, the farm had 900 ewes and around 140 ewe lambs the next year 850, the year after 800 then went to 600 ewes for 4-5 years then crept back up by 30-40 ewes a year. Currently at 850 ewes and 220 ewe lambs plus growing double the corn and more green crop than we have had since before converting. Clover is key though!

Are you purely sheep ?

 

[Al R]

Did the land adjust or did you start putting more clovers in etc?

The land adjusts, my roots all go down deep, my new leys look sh!te for the first 2 years as the roots are living off the OM on the surface after the cereals and turnips and then by year 3 their hammering on!

Most heavily fertilised grass leys I see all of the roots are in the top 2-3”, no roots go down as they don’t need to as their being fed from the surface with prills, by not feeding from above the roots go down and get the nutrients from well below

 

[gone up the hill]

Thanks, you have helped get the point i have been trying to get across. I wonder to what point you could cut numbers using less fert to make the same overall profit, not easily done without trying it. If we all tried it then production would drop and demand /prices would rise. Unless the sods just imported more

But you will have to cut ALL your fixed costs as well including wages/ or what you draw out of the business to live on, how do you do that when everything that you need on a personal level like gas/ fuel/ etc etc is rapidly climbing in price?

All you are on is a race to the bottom!

 

[muleman]

Be plenty joining you!!

We will all be organic if these fert firms dont be getting into the real world!

 

[Al R]

Are you purely sheep ?

Mainly sheep, did have between 4-20 store cattle to which was part of an educational project I’m part of which they wanted calves in for when we weren’t lambing, plus 40 acre of corn and 20 acre turnips. That’s just at the organic farm

 

[z.man]

A man in this area (sadly no longer with us) who was a master at winning carcase competitions always said the shoulder was the most important part when assessing live lambs. A lamb with a good shoulder always had a good carcase overall. He used to come look at our tups before the premier sale and always put his hand on the shoulder before anything else.

Not to mention the extra kg on the shoulder gets payed at the same rate as the hindquarter

 

[gone up the hill]

We will all be organic if these fert firms dont be getting into the real world!

I think there is a lot more to this Fert job than just the price of gas pushing prices up so high!

 

[Al R]

I think there is a lot more to this Fert job than just the price of gas pushing prices up so high!

UK uses 1% of the world’s fertiliser, it isn’t a UK only issue.

 

[gone up the hill]

Okay just had a look back at the market reports.

Jan 14th 2022 ( today ) Exeter market averaged £90 for store lambs.

Jan 15th 2021 ( I year ago ) Exeter market averaged £97.70 for store lambs....

 

[gone up the hill]

UK uses 1% of the world’s fertiliser, it isn’t a UK only issue.

You miss the point i am making...,

 

[Al R]

You miss the point i am making...,

I think you miss the point that the whole world is experiencing the same problems.

 

[gone up the hill]

I think you miss the point that the whole world is experiencing the same problems.

Yes they are and something/someone is driving that to reduce Fert usage and its not the price of gas that is the main driver.

 

[z.man]

But you will have to cut ALL your fixed costs as well including wages/ or what you draw out of the business to live on, how do you do that when everything that you need on a personal level like gas/ fuel/ etc etc is rapidly climbing in price?

All you are on is a race to the bottom!

Unfortunately I agree completely with you here, the economic model of ever decreasing circles is doomed to failure , Optimising inputs however is prudent.
When I was younger I was envious of the huge farms with massive turnover however I now look admiringly at the small self sufficient farm that’s providing an adequate living for the minimum expenditure unfortunately I feel stuck somewhere in the middle

 

[Al R]

Yes they are and something/someone is driving that to reduce Fert usage and its not the price of gas that is the main driver.

There are supply issues from Russia etc, LPG tankers are being diverted last minute from European/British shores to China or wherever the highest bidder is. People off due to covid etc worldwide.

tried ordering anything new recently? Huge waits for anything!

 

[livestock 1]

Yes they are and something/someone is driving that to reduce Fert usage and its not the price of gas that is the main driver.

China and India were being forced to use fertiliser on any land that would grow for food security at the beginning of Covid almost two years ago it was a kind of forced subsidy that farmers had to take up on.
At the same time a hell of a lot of fert or ingredients for fert were on the move everywhere
Not been right since