Beef semen. Worth a little extra?

[happycows]

Need to get some more beef straws. Usually have the cheapest fertility plus or triple blue/impact i can buy. I know a few who frequently top the calf market swear by paying that bit extra for their beef straws for a top top notch named sire and say they get the best calves for it. We do well and get some nice calves which will make upto £350 out of our holsteins but do not get the £400 calves.

Any truth or sense in it? We are talking from £6/7 a straw to maybe £10/15.

 

[GenuineRisk]

The better the quality of the bull, the more the AI studs will have paid for it, I guess, so they'll want a decent return and, once surveys are in and they can gauge how the bull will go, they'll then charge accordingly. Not sure how much 'our' bulls are but think N. Easy was about £12/straw last time I asked? Know he's selling really well for Genus. Dermot might be a bit less - he gets real quality calves but you'd need to careful to keep an eye calving. We've a couple of baby pedigree bull calves by him here that are very pleasing. Edward and Chalky White are with Semex and I know they've exported semen from both bulls now to Denmark. We're running a full brother to Edward on the dairy herd and getting some really cracking calves and they're just starting to be sold as stores at Sedgemoor - selling well.

 

[Blue.]

Need to get some more beef straws. Usually have the cheapest fertility plus or triple blue/impact i can buy. I know a few who frequently top the calf market swear by paying that bit extra for their beef straws for a top top notch named sire and say they get the best calves for it. We do well and get some nice calves which will make upto £350 out of our holsteins but do not get the £400 calves.

Any truth or sense in it? We are talking from £6/7 a straw to maybe £10/15.

The £400 calves will be a week or two older (can't do wink smilie)

 

[happycows]

I don't suppose they would be putting £12 bulls in £6 fert plus straws? i would be using them on all cows and don't tend to get much calving problems. a couple of ceasars would soon mess up any extra in calve sales if it did cause problems.

Any very dark bulls you'd recommend GR? I do like the really dark/black blue calves.

 

[GenuineRisk]

They often start their younger bulls in Fert Plus! Chalky started that way as well as just him.

You're spoilt for choice, really, re black bulls but they do tend to be more for pedigree use - calving ease will vary. We've obviously got Carbon semen for sale but a couple of others I'd recommend would be Norbreck Black Beauty and Twyning Ash Vaughan. Carbon's £12/straw - think the other two are £12-15.

 

[choochter]

There's a Bazadaise bull called Edonil that has been used successfully in beef and dairy herds for a number of years. You can get the straws from the British Bazadaise Cattle Society or Genus. He gets small calves. Not sure on price for larger quantities but the Society's secretary will tell you. When Bazadaise were first brought here from France in the 1980s it was by a group of dairy farmers looking for bulls to put on dairy cattle.
Here's the link with details and photos of his progeny.
http://www.bazadaise.org.uk/aibulls.html

 

[GenuineRisk]

The £400 calves will be a week or two older (can't do wink smilie)

They may well be but you can't put shape on to calves in two weeks - it's either there or it isn't ! And the big calf buyers know full well what they're buying - pretty hard to put one past 'em...

I've always been told that an Auctioneer saying these calves are by so-and-so bull helps a lot if that bull is well-regarded - maybe worth a word to ask which bull is selling the best at your local mart? Round here, a few years back, if a calf was by Valley Pedro, that would add a few quid onto the price.

 

[neilo]

I don't suppose they would be putting £12 bulls in £6 fert plus straws? i would be using them on all cows and don't tend to get much calving problems. a couple of ceasars would soon mess up any extra in calve sales if it did cause problems.

We used to get those top end BB calves, or rather Dad did. Very rarely had to resort to ceasars, but I've got to say that very few would have been sired by 'easy calving' bulls. They would also have been sold off high CC nurse cows, not a bucket. That extra £50 can soon disappear.

 

[happycows]

So if i decided to keep them to finish on a intensive diet would you see your money back in better conversion and kill out grade/% for the extra money. I've seen some nice pictures of the bazdaise on here but i don't know what they would make of them in the calf ring?

Fortunatley not having any high scc cows it's milk out the tank most of the time at £1.50 to £1.80 a day depending on time of year,so yes neilo £50 would soon disappear.

would the carbon straws be yours or through a ai company?? He looks the biz!!

 

[GenuineRisk]

Carbon semen owned by us and his owner, who uses him on a 450+ commercial suckler herd, along with 5 other Blue bulls and a Lim for the heifers - we have plenty in our pot but he is also shipped out via UK Sires. Where Carbon scores on dairies is getting dark heifers, who achieve a bit of a premium for those looking for first cross suckler replacements. The dairy herd at partners does have bcc cows, which are good nurse cows and feed calves for a couple of weeks before they're moved over to calf pens and on feeders mopping up any excess bcc milk. It's a system they're happy with but not for everyone, of course. Don't forget to add in the temperament factor on the heifers, too - I believe it's an element that consistently gets forgotten but our BBx recips wouldn't even consider jumping gates, are easy to move, handle etc and can raise a very decent calf as they are usually really maternal.

 

[dinderleat]

So if i decided to keep them to finish on a intensive diet would you see your money back in better conversion and kill out grade/% for the extra money. I've seen some nice pictures of the bazdaise on here but i don't know what they would make of them in the calf ring?

Fortunatley not having any high scc cows it's milk out the tank most of the time at £1.50 to £1.80 a day depending on time of year,so yes neilo £50 would soon disappear.

would the carbon straws be yours or through a ai company?? He looks the biz!!

I should look at the cost of milk powder? I worked it out to be around 14-18ppl.

 

[happycows]

Last time i tried it 6 odd months ago the calves were still hungary and shouting after their feed and were going downhill like they just were not getting the energy requirements. mole valley said to increase milk powder rate and the litres to 6 a day which i did and it then worked out about a couple of pence within my milk price.
I now ad maybe 1 to 6 of hot water and they look better than on the powder.

 

[choochter]

I am not au fait with the dairy scene, happycows, but I can put you in touch with a Bazadaise breeder nearer your area who used to dairy but now breeds pure and dairyx Baz. 'Converse' if interested...

 

[mushnt grummmble]

well what ever you do,put the sires name on the passport
after the recent events with dobbin,retailers are asking for the sires names/ear no. to dna test
to make sure redrum isnt the sire

 

[neilo]

I should look at the cost of milk powder? I worked it out to be around 14-18ppl.

I'd almost guarantee that none of those market topping calves will have been reared on milk powder, although ours all went on a teat for a few days to train them ready for their new homes.

Not saying rearing calves on milk powder isn't any good, they just won't have that same bloom on them at a month old.

 

[azimuth]

The better the quality of the bull, the more the AI studs will have paid for it, I guess, so they'll want a decent return and, once surveys are in and they can gauge how the bull will go, they'll then charge accordingly. Not sure how much 'our' bulls are but think N. Easy was about £12/straw last time I asked? Know he's selling really well for Genus. Dermot might be a bit less - he gets real quality calves but you'd need to careful to keep an eye calving. We've a couple of baby pedigree bull calves by him here that are very pleasing. Edward and Chalky White are with Semex and I know they've exported semen from both bulls now to Denmark. We're running a full brother to Edward on the dairy herd and getting some really cracking calves and they're just starting to be sold as stores at Sedgemoor - selling well.

as ive mentioned to you my 5cows calved to newpole dermot,all needing a bit of help,but made smashing calves.genus told me he was easy calving but i see you say he needs watching.am a bit dissapointed genus told me he was easy calving when not.they could have put me onto n/easy but ive gone back to e/calving limos.

 

[GenuineRisk]

Dermot passed all his calving surveys but think I am correct in saying that a very few cows needed a pull and that's reflected in their summary of him on his figures. He's certainly no cow killer! keeping an eye and assisting the odd one calving isn't for
everyone, obviously, but he does get very good calves with plenty of shape and the calves have been getting good prices - as I have said before on BFF, you don't get something for nothing! Easy is a bit special - he gets very small calves that, to be honest, are a bit disappointing when they hit the deck - just like he was! But, just like him, they grow like maggots and the shape comes within days and he's one of their top-selling beef bulls.

 

[azimuth]

thanks g/risk,both semen straws with genus are £12.i will have the next ones to n/easy.

 

[Monty]

We pick our blue semen on calving ease/gestation period and nothing else. The best bull we ever used was Ukelele from dairy daughters but sadly the bull passed away. It was roughly 5-6 quid but the price shot up to around 15 when the semen was in short supply. The calves were always early, small and keen. Another bull we used was difficult calving and they just maul the cows. Any extra you get from them is more than lost in what it does to the cow. We generally found these calves to make a little bit more but nothing significant probably due to them being a week or 2 more developed when calving.
We are consistently getting good prices for the blues and that is down to one thing, getting lots of milk down them. Whether they're suckling a cow or drinking out of a tub/feeder they need to drink as much as they can take to get top prices. Ours will be drinking 10-12 litres a day before they go off, over 100 quids worth but we try not to think of the value of milk they're drinking. Sometimes it will make you cry.

 

[GenuineRisk]

thanks g/risk,both semen straws with genus are £12.i will have the next ones to n/easy.

Good luck with him! Will try and post some photos of his baby full sister when I can get a decent one of her - she's a real pain, as soon as she spots me she hurtles over for a scritch, so real pain to photograph!