Beltex ram??

[neilo]

I don't think it is cr*p. Suffolk mules aren't suitable for outdoor lambing. Lambed in a shed they should be fine

He was suggesting that there was an issue with 'the folk that look after them'.

They are still more work than most other breeds, even when lambing on a shed ime. Obviously that labels me as a poor shepherd too then. Personally I wouldn't give them house room for anything other than early lambing, and only then if I couldn't find a more maternal option.

 

[gwi1890]

There's nothing wrong with sheep. It's usually the folk who look after them. Or don't look after them as is often the case

I don't think it is cr*p. Suffolk mules aren't suitable for outdoor lambing. Lambed in a shed they should be fine

they have their place I suppose I worked for a farm who wanted to shift all lambs off the farm by may so they could run more cattle over summer, but lets not pretend they are not hard work, 3 full time staff me and another + 2 night lambers to look after 1200 sheep thats roughly £900 a day in wages, put the feed and creep/straw and meds on top of that and its a very expensive ewe to keep. The system worked for him but it was incredibly labour intensive and losses occurred despite your efforts the main being a dozy suffolk ewe laying on top of her lamb in the pens!

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

I don't think there that bad. Had some a few years ago and can't remember a lot of issues but they weren't lambed outside . I remember they seemed more milky than texel mules and the lambs grew really well.

I think it is a poor decision to lamb Suffolk mules outside and 9 out of 10 farmers would think it was asking for trouble.

 

[Longlowdog]

@neilo , some of the Beltex breed have problems with longevity, just as some Charollais have crap feet and only thrive on creep but I don't go around damning all Charollais. I've put almost 10 years into sorting the wheat from the chaff and NEVER damn anyone else's breed with broad generalisations except for above to make a point which hopefully was taken as what it was meant to be, an overly simplistic possibly hurtful view of a bunch of highly regarded breeds of sheep, used to exaggerate the pointlessness ( and insulting effect on breeders) of damning breeds as a whole without recognising the exceptions.

 

[Estate fencing.]

Can’t we all just agree that all sheep are shite and everyone who has them is either lazy or a idiot

 

[unlacedgecko]

He was suggesting that there was an issue with 'the folk that look after them'.

They are still more work than most other breeds, even when lambing on a shed ime. Obviously that labels me as a poor shepherd too then. Personally I wouldn't give them house room for anything other than early lambing, and only then if I couldn't find a more maternal option.

I believe the correct term is "shepherdlesser"

 

[Fourofakind]

If you buy uber fat show ring kings of any breed you can buy a nightmare. Sure they may serve a purpose for other pedigree breeders to keep some of the breed traits being lost when commercially driven producers get their hands on them and start making plain types with less of the characteristics that made the breed popular in the first place. However any terminal sire breed has two tiers, the show ring kings and their grubby cousins with real potential to do a job. If someone slates all sheep of a given breed because they bought a show ring superstar then I feel that I ought to point out to potential customers that all charollais sheep have crap feet and only grow if born in December in a shed and are fed creep till sale time, all Suff's are fat and lazy and birth comatose lambs, all texels get mastitis, all Cheviots are too wild to handle and all Blackies cannot be fenced in. I could go on, but do I need to or will the folk who own these breeds accept that as they put down other breeds to shine a light on their own they also must accept that the skeletons in their closet will also have to be brought to light. To blanket damn a breed is insulting to those of us trying really hard to produce sheep that are worthy of a place in anyone's flock.

Excellent point. All too common for some in farming to jump at criticizing others...that's some not all of us, that would be generalizing based on a small minority.

 

[Fourofakind]

This is just the thing. I love the look of him, but this short life and texel throat thing have spooked me a bit

This is just the thing. I love the look of him, but this short life and texel throat thing have spooked me a bit

You could start a post on every breed individually on here and there will be enough people to comment to put you off each one. Ever read the side effects of an Anadin Extra, you'd never buy one of them either if you took too much notice.

 

[neilo]

Excellent point. All too common for some in farming to jump at criticizing others...that's some not all of us, that would be generalizing based on a small minority.

No. @Longlowdog perhaps has some in that ‘small minority’, and all credit to him for doing so.
It certainly doesn’t mean that the reputation for not lasting long isn’t valid though. Most shepherds that have experience of them would certainly back that up, regardless of the other qualities they undeniably bring to the table.

 

[neilo]

What i cannot understand from reading the forum is how after many years decline the last sheep breed survey still showed the % of ewes being served by a Suffolk remained 50% higher than the % of ewes served by a Charollais ie 12% Suffolk versus 8% Charollais. It will be interesting to see after the most recent survey whether the long anticipated disappearance of the Suffolk breed is in fact true or a figment of the imagination of breeders of other breeds. Indeed if my memory serves me right the usage of the Charolais has never been above 8%. through good and bad times.

And your point is? I haven’t suggested the OP use a Charollais at any point.

My post you quoted said that I wouldn’t entertain a black headed sheep here again, regardless of origin, based on many years of previous experience. It was such a huge revelation when we moved to (several) continental breeds that I personally just wouldn’t consider a Suffolk again.

 

[Ryan774-80]

Last year for the Suffolk tup here only lost 1 (touch wood) that couldn’t lamb outside and that was a to a Suffolk, only had 5 lambs by him in total aswell
out of 200 gone to either a welsh,blue texel or a Charollais had to pull three, two of which had a leg bent back.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

That's him now

Bid them £280, Get him bought. That’s a good tup. It’s still better than cull price which is all a middle aged tup is worth at this time of year realistically. He looks far too bright to suffer from texel throut. Stands up well too. I’ve had belted tups last until broken mouthed, I’ve also had beltex tups die the first season of use. It’s luck of the draw, same with ANY tup. (Apart from scrag tups, those sods never die. Just keep on appearing and serving ewes then doing one when you get back with the gun...)

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Leave him where he is. He is a bit woolly for a genuine Beltex, looks more like a a Texel

Oh dear... those are the types of beltex I go for...

The muscle bound bald things just do nothing for me at all!!

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Mostly because big dead lambs that don’t get up and suck don’t convert very well?

Obviously some strains won’t be that bad, but too many of us remember the bad old days to ever consider a black headed sheep on the place again, regardless of origin.

I have it on good authority from my uncle that if I EVER buy a Suffolk tup it will be shot before it gets off the backboard. He remembers the days before texels. As @neilo says, big gormless or dead lambs aren’t very good converters!!

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Funny you should say that. Weve got one Suffolk that we had to pull the most enormous lambs out of. The ewe tore very badly and prolapse the day after. One of the lambs didnt make the night and she orphaned the other

Erm... I rest my case your honour?

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Excellent point. All too common for some in farming to jump at criticizing others...that's some not all of us, that would be generalizing based on a small minority.

The amount of folk who tell me blackies and Cheviots can’t be kept behind electric?! I have pictures too the contrary!

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Can’t we all just agree that all sheep are shite and everyone who has them is either lazy or a idiot

 

[Estate fencing.]

Iv got a beltex cross Charollais.

 

[Estate fencing.]

Last year for the Suffolk tup here only lost 1 (touch wood) that couldn’t lamb outside and that was a to a Suffolk, only had 5 lambs by him in total aswell
out of 200 gone to either a welsh,blue texel or a Charollais had to pull three, two of which had a leg bent back.

Am I reading that right. You have only lost one lamb out of 200.

 

[Ryan774-80]

Am I reading that right. You have only lost one lamb out of 200.

i wish, Only one ewe lost when trying to lamb in the outdoor flock usually it’s more like 3-4. As Suffolk tup numbers have gone down pullling lambs with big heads have reduced