Clay52
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that's pretty similar to the moorepark trial herds.
you know the ones where they had to bring in extra Holsteins to fill gaps to make the trial statically fair
How old is that trial now.
Best cow for seasonal spring calving
- Thread starter Llmmm
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How old is that trial now.
Have you got newer data? For barn fed vs barn fed cows in the US ?
Clay52
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Are you able to answer my question first.
Was published in 2014 , data was from 2009
I'd still like to see a holstein doing 4000+l of purely forage, with no lameness or metabolic disorders and do a 305 lactation.
Holsteins are good cows for intensive systems, theres no doubt, but to recommend them for a spring calving system is a bit bonkers, especially if they are likely to be out wintered or grazed in Dec & Feb. They'd probably blow over here.
I'm lucky in that I bought cows from someone that had spent a lot of time breeding the 'perfect' cow for my system. A well bred herd that suits your system makes you look much more skilled than you are
Holsteins are good cows for intensive systems, theres no doubt, but to recommend them for a spring calving system is a bit bonkers, especially if they are likely to be out wintered or grazed in Dec & Feb. They'd probably blow over here.
I'm lucky in that I bought cows from someone that had spent a lot of time breeding the 'perfect' cow for my system. A well bred herd that suits your system makes you look much more skilled than you are
Clay52
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So the trail started earlier than that obviously. 2004 is what I can see. Holstein genetics pre 2009 I would agree with them. Crossbreeding would likely be more profitable in any system. Not just grazing. Holstein health traits being the cultprit. I saw that in my own herd early on with crossbreeding being better.
Problem is Holstein breed can move so quick compared to other breeds now even more so with genomics and the money in it. Commercial Holstein genetics avalable pre 2010 Holsteins to now is not even a comparison. You could barely get a positive DPR bull back then. The other breeds have gone forward at a snails pace in comparison.
Clay52
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I'd still like to see a holstein doing 4000+l of purely forage, with no lameness or metabolic disorders and do a 305 lactation.
Holsteins are good cows for intensive systems, theres no doubt, but to recommend them for a spring calving system is a bit bonkers, especially if they are likely to be out wintered or grazed in Dec & Feb. They'd probably blow over here.
I'm lucky in that I bought cows from someone that had spent a lot of time breeding the 'perfect' cow for my system. A well bred herd that suits your system makes you look much more skilled than you are
It’s funny one of the US Holstein bulls to be registered and get enough daughters on the kiwi system, Oman, come out at number 1, 10 or so years ago. Even now a 20 year old bull and he is better than most kiwi bulls for fertility on the kiwi system. Seems they did alright on a kiwi grazing system and there are much better Holstein options for grazing now than Oman.
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He had good fertility but shockingly bad survival rate and NZ Holstein would blame poor fertility on imported straws/bulls during the mid 90's.
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Using Oman on the NZ Friesian population would be crossbreeding though wouldn't it? Both black and white, but the lines would have diverged some time ago. If those types of bull were used for a few more generations, the results may not be so pretty. I would be genuinely interested to see how some of these modern Holsteins fared in a more challenging environment than they are usually assessed in.
More to life
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I'm a self confessed Holstein fan but they would perform badly in a spring calving situation. Heifer bred to give 35plus liters and fed for 25 would be a car crash
I went to a grazing discussion group meeting in spring last year where the advice was to make sure cows ran out of food at around midnight so they went out after morning milking with an 'edge' on there appetite, which is fine as they'll graze hard etc but holstiens want the opposite imo and this is why they would fail on alot of extensive grazing systems. I think crossbred cows of some description are still the best for a spring calving grazing system and I'm a massive fan of the holstien
Clay52
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The vast majority of spring only calving, low input herds in Aus are Holstein, no claimed car crash to be seen.
Irish NZ
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Except the whole Australian dairy industry.....
Clay52
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Yeah because like any issues in the aus industry would be helped by using kiwi genetics. Less production, worse udders and no better and often worse health traits than what they were using.
In any case. I said this before. Plenty of farmers doing fine in aus. Parts are in drought but that happens in a drought prone country.
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I have no doubt the hol genetics are well on the way to creating 'more modern' type of holstien. although we have sold most of our hols, there are some left that graze, and produce very well, bf tends to be lower than xb/fr, a lot of 'modern' fr bulls tend to seem like down sized hols. the problem is there are an awful lot of bad genetics out in the national herd, and until that works through the system the same pros and cons will be debated fervently! and. as yet., there isn't a true answer.
mixed farm
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I used to always think that Australians were arrogant, argumentative, annoying men. Then I was introduced to clay!
Irish NZ
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Clay52
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Glad i could entertain you.