Big announcement tonight!

[fudge]

Well, that was worth the wait......or not. No wonder it was a midnight special. Must have taken them ages to produce an A4 sheet of buzzwords to satisfy the Guardian and the BNP. No detail. Let's see how watered down it gets, and how long before the new "streamlined" less bureaucratic idea result in tendering for a new *groan* IT system.

Spot on. I think we could see a “gatekeeper” type solution where farmers log every activity with defra to qualify for the new PGP. TBF some software house could come up with that for £3 billion/annum.

 

[Sonoftheheir]

Pisses me off when they keep saying how inefficient we are!

The only thing we can’t control effects us more than anything (the weather).

 

[Suffolk Serf]

Pisses me off when they keep saying how inefficient we are!

The only thing we can’t control effects us more than anything (the weather).

Yes but the weather is our fault too.

 

[Goweresque]

"the government plans to ‘delink’ Direct Payments from the requirement to farm the land,"

Does this mean that those who are barely farming, like 6 cows on 200 acres will now be able to not keep any cows at all and claim as big a payment no as everyone else and say it's a nature reserve?!

Hopefully the Scottish gov don't follow suit....

I think that means at some point in the next 7 years they'll just say 'Whoever was farming the land at date X will get all the old BPS payment from here on until it runs out, even if they sell the land, stop farming it, or rent it out' Its just a way of reducing the administration, so they aren't having to deal with BPS applications for the entire 7 years as well as bringing in the new ELMS etc.

 

[Chae1]

I think that means at some point in the next 7 years they'll just say 'Whoever was farming the land at date X will get all the old BPS payment from here on until it runs out, even if they sell the land, stop farming it, or rent it out' Its just a way of reducing the administration, so they aren't having to deal with BPS applications for the entire 7 years as well as bringing in the new ELMS etc.

That won't happen to protect landlords.

Same was meant to happen in Scotland but reference years were quickly changed so landlords could claim.

 

[Hindsight]

I think that means at some point in the next 7 years they'll just say 'Whoever was farming the land at date X will get all the old BPS payment from here on until it runs out, even if they sell the land, stop farming it, or rent it out' Its just a way of reducing the administration, so they aren't having to deal with BPS applications for the entire 7 years as well as bringing in the new ELMS etc.

Correct me if I am wrong please. I thought in the original Agriculture Bill the plan was to phase out any 'BPS type' payment after year 7, with a phased reduction during the transition period. Thus in year 8 there would be no payment at all. Any payment available would be ELMs. The lump sum I took to be a rolling up of any payments due within the 7 year phasing out period to act as a retirement payment if a claimant wanted to leave early.

 

[DrWazzock]

So it changes from being a flat rate payment to something presumably where you have to satisfy a multitude of different options and criteria from everything from habitat provision to carbon capture on a set of dreamt up schemes, record what you are doing and prove you have done it to inspectors then if they are happy you might get paid sometime. So the bureaucracy required and bureaucrats employed will need to increase twentyfold and presumably the IT system will need to be upgraded. If you don't need to farm the land to receive payments then presumably a huge acreage of presently non farmed land will be added.

What an unnecessary mess. Given the previous track record I can't see it ending well.
Personally I will carry on without it if I can once the present system has tapered away, or just retire.

 

[DrWazzock]

Spot on. I think we could see a “gatekeeper” type solution where farmers log every activity with defra to qualify for the new PGP. TBF some software house could come up with that for £3 billion/annum.

But it will all have to be mapped to 0.00000001 ha etc etc. Nightmare.

 

[farmerfred86]

whats the bet "min till" will be rewarded as reduced cultivation...

 

[DrWazzock]

Yes retirement looks like the best option. If I am still alive in 7 years time I will be near enough 60, the kit and roofs will be completely knackered and the grainstore substandard. 200 acres will be even less viable than it is today on scale.
Better buy a nice apartment in Lincoln soon, then let it till we need it.

Job sorted. Hopefully we aren't forced to sell but my nephews and neices can faff about with ELMS if they want to.
I'm out.

 

[andybk]

"the government plans to ‘delink’ Direct Payments from the requirement to farm the land,"

Does this mean that those who are barely farming, like 6 cows on 200 acres will now be able to not keep any cows at all and claim as big a payment no as everyone else and say it's a nature reserve?!

Hopefully the Scottish gov don't follow suit....

maybe means they will just pay an "active" farmer , rather than inactive landowner , above is what it is now ,

 

[andybk]

And a chemical is ok? Antibiotic usage has been reduced why can't chemical use? We have to think smarter and be more innovative.
Why numerous times?

there has always been the "golden hoof " if they only reign in the bloody agronomists , every time we have done it with one of our landlords it has worked well as long as done responsibly with low stocking rate , but his agronomist hates it and cant get his head around it .

 

[Lincsman]

There is an alternative, take no subsidies /payments/ incentives and Farm how you think best.

 

[Wombat]

There is an alternative, take no subsidies /payments/ incentives and Farm how you think best.

Think that will be my plan

 

[teslacoils]

There is an alternative, take no subsidies /payments/ incentives and Farm how you think best.

Unsure. Even if you don't take it, there will be a myriad of hoops to go through. It's not like you can not claim it now, and then say rubbish to all these nvz rules etc.

 

[dogandstick]

There is an alternative, take no subsidies /payments/ incentives and Farm how you think best.

But I'll bet my bottom dollar they'll still find a way to regulate you. I've heard rumours that cross compliance regs may be converted to law. So anyone breaking those will be subject to prosecution, a fine and possibly imprisonment, regardless of whether you claim or not. And bear the prosecution costs if you loose!

At least, whilst penalties are applied to BPS, in most cases it's a relatively small percentage of the overall payment.

 

[Brisel]

Most of the cross compliance rules are already law, they are just embellished and the fines are easier to get - just deduct it from BPS. That will be harder when they’ve got to drag you into court and convince a jury to do so.

 

[Shughie McFee]

it's disappointing that posters on here advocate doing the same old sh!te that didn't work the first time. subsidies. elms. organic farming.
it should be the dawn of a new era. we need some sensible ideas for the future of the traditional family farm, especially those away from population where farm shops and storing posh boats is out of the question.
fed up of hearing silly buzzwords like " regenerative agriculture ".
fed up of hearing tied old cliches like " add value to your produce ". go on then, how do you add value to wheat ? i'm all ears.
fed up with hearing " if you don't like it do something else ".
positive, sensible ideas for the next generation, please.

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

How does paying people whether food is being produced or not safeguard food security?

There should be a minimum calorie output per hectare if food security is being taken seriously.

Hopefully the bill will give an exhaustive list of "public goods" in black & white.

 

[Al R]

I reckon cover crop/catch crop/mustard/ clover in the arable rotation to act as a fallow and build OM
Ploughing once in a rotation
Scratching the top with discs will become the normal practice

how that will help our Grade 3 heavy wet plasticine clay I don’t know
Time will tell

Ironic that the public who are hell bent on banning glyphosate are the ones most against the plough and pushing DD/Min till which without glyphosate the system will fail very quickly!

Organic here ploughing 3 years (green crop, barley, oats then undersown) then 5-7 year of grass ley. I’ve done mintill and DD when working on conventional high input/output farms and would never dream of doing it on any scale organically unless running a system like John Pawsey on CTF organic drilling then doing an offset and cutting the weeds between the planted rows throughout the year.