Biodiversity offsetting - Anyone done it?

Huno

Member
Arable Farmer
Ha, poor turn of phrase on my part. I think the issue will be that the Landowner will always need to countersign the agreement in case you do walk away. I think the trig reforms will make it easier for tenants in that Landlord's will probably not be allowed to say no outright but there will still need to be some co-operation. I think the most recent reforms may make a nod to it but cannot remember exactly.
Still massively respect your factual angle on this thread and the current AHA dilemma... i sat down ,enjoyed the view and pondered upon your thoughts regarding these schemes for those of us caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.. thank you again...
 
Can i ask you a pointed question on the day as to why AHA tenants with over 30yrs left to run on their contracts cant biodiversity offset without landlord permission? I love yachting too you see🤣
Because I can see in the pipeline AHAs all becoming FBTS as thats what the powers that be want, plus Offsetting is not agricultural by definition - So not covered by an AHA, infact it would be classed as a change of use - I belive from what Ive been told that a LL could offset and terminate tenancy on it as its a change of use from agriculture to biodiversity.
 

Huno

Member
Arable Farmer
Because I can see in the pipeline AHAs all becoming FBTS as thats what the powers that be want, plus Offsetting is not agricultural by definition - So not covered by an AHA, infact it would be classed as a change of use - I belive from what Ive been told that a LL could offset and terminate tenancy on it as its a change of use from agriculture to biodiversity.
Correct and the landlord would pay the AHA tenant about 20% of the " development" value which is more than they could ever earn from farming in their career in terms of profits!! Win win... the yacht is back on the table😉
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
Conservative Environment Network.. look it up farmers and weep🥵


1) Support farmers to transition to lower input regenerative farming practices through the Environmental Land Management Schemes (ELMS) We will use ELS to encourage farmers to use "regenerative" farming so they can improve soil fertility whilst cutting back on fertiliser and create wildlife margins to provide biological pest control and negate the need for insecticides... Farmers can produce more with less inputs if only they did the job proper like...

2) Embrace new technologies to reduce the need for inputs linked to the price of gas we will embrace new technology, it doesnt currently exist and if it exists its probably too expensive, but heck it is the solution because our entire philosophy on anything and everything from waste management to prison reform, it all revolves around their being a magical solution just around the corner

3) Signal support for new production methods in the forthcoming food strategy white paper Screw farming, the future is a gloop factory in Slough. If we produce artificial meet it will create 10,0000 factory jobs and 6,500 jobs in farming to produce the inputs... I mean obviously it wont, most of these factories will be largely automated and the losses to the livestock industry will be, well we dont really give a sh t.

4) Maintain our high environmental standards in future trade deals... We should avoid dropping tariffs on imports... though whilst we like this principle we also like imports because they are cheap so we will not bother to fight very hard on this issue that with the department of trade.

5) Ensure more of the food we produce is fed to humans So weaken the requirement for biofuels, it will make grain cheaper...

Thats not a five point plan to boost food security, its a five point plan to decimate UK agriculture.
 
Correct and the landlord would pay the AHA tenant about 20% of the " development" value which is more than they could ever earn from farming in their career in terms of profits!! Win win... the yacht is back on the table😉
You wish,
The case know of, same company I'm dealing with, he just got 2 years notice he was out and 5 years rent upfront as compo, and the notice period rent free, was told if he argued they'd take the rest of his aha and plant woodland on it.

Don't be under any illusion, tenants won't get and biscuits at this tea party
 

Huno

Member
Arable Farmer
You wish,
The case know of, same company I'm dealing with, he just got 2 years notice he was out and 5 years rent upfront as compo, and the notice period rent free, was told if he argued they'd take the rest of his aha and plant woodland on it.

Don't be under any illusion, tenants won't get and biscuits at this tea party
He should have argued and no they would have taken the rest of his AHA... they call that being mugged in rural terms
 
He should have argued and no they would have taken the rest of his AHA... they call that being mugged in rural terms
He did and my understanding is he would of suceeded defending the rest of his AHA, to an extent but it woud not of been a viable holding afterwards so a whole other area of complexity so better to roll over and take the little they give,e

Im learning as the owner, owning farmland makes you a little shrimp in a sea full of very large fish and sharks, all vying to eat each other and they usually ignore us shrimps, theyre quite happy to leave us some leftovers that to us are shrip sized so huge, but to them are just tit bits. Stand your ground and get slaughtered.
Looking into it more, locally one woman owned a 3 ac pony paddock, and a 3m access track to a development, she refused to sell and came home to find a 7.5m road put in and paperwork saying it was to be adopted by the council, she's basically got the option of take £10k and let it be. Or fight and loose as it will be dragged out, Different developer but still shows that in this world its a different sort of game
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
He did and my understanding is he would of suceeded defending the rest of his AHA, to an extent but it woud not of been a viable holding afterwards so a whole other area of complexity so better to roll over and take the little they give,e

Im learning as the owner, owning farmland makes you a little shrimp in a sea full of very large fish and sharks, all vying to eat each other and they usually ignore us shrimps, theyre quite happy to leave us some leftovers that to us are shrip sized so huge, but to them are just tit bits. Stand your ground and get slaughtered.
Looking into it more, locally one woman owned a 3 ac pony paddock, and a 3m access track to a development, she refused to sell and came home to find a 7.5m road put in and paperwork saying it was to be adopted by the council, she's basically got the option of take £10k and let it be. Or fight and loose as it will be dragged out, Different developer but still shows that in this world its a different sort of game
The only option in that situation is to sue.

A friend had that about 20 years ago. The local (very big) estate sought pp for a development behind his house. Their access was an old single lane farm entrance they hadn't used in decades (because it was too small for modern kit). The planners wouldn't approve it unless the road met adoption standards. He got home one day to find they'd removed his hedge and the neighbour's opposite and widened the track. They both fought it but ended up settling on legal advice which still left them £120k out of pocket each.

It nearly broke him.
 
The only option in that situation is to sue.

A friend had that about 20 years ago. The local (very big) estate sought pp for a development behind his house. Their access was an old single lane farm entrance they hadn't used in decades (because it was too small for modern kit). The planners wouldn't approve it unless the road met adoption standards. He got home one day to find they'd removed his hedge and the neighbour's opposite and widened the track. They both fought it but ended up settling on legal advice which still left them £120k out of pocket each.

It nearly broke him.
Yea, entering this world its quite enlightening - when a £20million development is held up by a £15,000 strip of land (and thats ransom value, in reality as farm land worth £500) - the developers work on the basis that they just take it, offer double or triple its value and if the person is stupid enough to fight - then their loss as a court will obviously rule against the developer (I know they didn't even contest it) but the most they will be forced to pay is costs, value and compensation around perhaps 1 to 2 x the value - which is why the offer that, so when you sue you look a nelly as they've already offered to settle for more than you could get, which means they have a legitimate refusal on costs and can charge theirs.... so basically if they come knocking, take the money and ask for some favours.

I now know of one west yorkshire farmer who didnt want to stop farming but his dad sold an option on the farm in the 70s to clear the mortgage and other debts... wise idea at the time knowing their was no way the water system could cope so wouldnt likely happen - 50 years later it did,

Chris tried to fight it, and the developer turned round and said "well pay you the option price [2x agri value] and buy you an equivilent sized farm in northumberland " -
780 houses so far on that first plot and the developer still has 230 acres of prime west yorkshire urban fringe land owned for the future. Wise choice, he got 2x the cash and a fully equipped farm up north - was made clear if he fought it, he would get his money but the stress etc as when the money involved in development comes knocking - can you really fight it?
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
No names, no pack drill, but I am aware of a nearby site where 1250 homes are proposed on a mix of arable land and a wildlife site. The developing land owner also owns a large ex-landfill site nearby which has been fly-grazed to death by ponies for years. They recently sought to let the land to an intensive farm grazing operation and one bidder proposed to operate a holistic grazing plan. They rejected that bid and, I suspect, it was because it would create too much biodiversity on their planned offsetting land before they are ready to build the homes.

I’ve had a very similar experience with a county council arable farm. I was going to put the whole thing into GS4 and intensively graze. Rejected as it needed to stay conventional arable for max gain during incremental BNG conversion.
 
I’ve had a very similar experience with a county council arable farm. I was going to put the whole thing into GS4 and intensively graze. Rejected as it needed to stay conventional arable for max gain during incremental BNG conversion.
Yea my LA has just taken PP that's on heavy clay, and put it into biomass rye wholecrop, the land agent looking for licencees to graze it next year said that same - Needs to be totally sterile so they can hit their eco targets as easy as possible. .it hasnt seen crops since the previous tenant tried in the 80's (he retired last year).
The field margins had bee orchids and everything else in, the fields were pretty good diverse PP had sucklers and occasionally winter tack sheep on for 20 years, well cared for, but as it was hard clay (soil smears shiny blue), never ploughed, but always plenty of muck and lime.

The LA are trying to maximize the amount of BD they can claim, while also maximizing tree planting (ironically bad for BD) to satisfy the different branches of the loud shouty protesty types (LSPT - the latest gender identity) that the media likes to talk about, while also still farming.....

Typical public sector thinking - spreadsheet targets over facts and reality, and combine that with the econazi ideology and you just mess it all up.
 
So as an update - latest line is the Local Auth wants the parish council to be party to the agreement as an interested party - I have flat out refused, been clear their are no circumstanes on gods green earth I will let a parish council near my property.
Telling the letter they sent wanted assurances of public access and that any grazed animals would not be sold for meat as that would be a Climate catastrophe - the econazis really are everywhere.
Have sent the letter stating Either roll on with initial planned agreement or Im walking on 1st August. Too many skeletons coming out of the cupboards, and it seems that Parishs have realized it could be an opportunity for a power grab.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
So as an update - latest line is the Local Auth wants the parish council to be party to the agreement as an interested party - I have flat out refused, been clear their are no circumstanes on gods green earth I will let a parish council near my property.
Telling the letter they sent wanted assurances of public access and that any grazed animals would not be sold for meat as that would be a Climate catastrophe - the econazis really are everywhere.
Have sent the letter stating Either roll on with initial planned agreement or Im walking on 1st August. Too many skeletons coming out of the cupboards, and it seems that Parishs have realized it could be an opportunity for a power grab.
Bloody Hellfire. That is just plain craziness...

As a (former) long standing Parish Councillor your comments should annoy the hell out of me, but having listened to the garbage that the "well meaning, but stupid", try to impose on their community, I wholeheartedly agree with your viewpoint!

Be interesting to see if the LA back down and go with Plan A.
 

Hampton

Member
BASIS
Location
Shropshire
So as an update - latest line is the Local Auth wants the parish council to be party to the agreement as an interested party - I have flat out refused, been clear their are no circumstanes on gods green earth I will let a parish council near my property.
Telling the letter they sent wanted assurances of public access and that any grazed animals would not be sold for meat as that would be a Climate catastrophe - the econazis really are everywhere.
Have sent the letter stating Either roll on with initial planned agreement or Im walking on 1st August. Too many skeletons coming out of the cupboards, and it seems that Parishs have realized it could be an opportunity for a power grab.
Just out of interest. Was that letter written by the consensus of the parish, or one shouty councillor
 

Hampton

Member
BASIS
Location
Shropshire
Bloody Hellfire. That is just plain craziness...

As a (former) long standing Parish Councillor your comments should annoy the hell out of me, but having listened to the garbage that the "well meaning, but stupid", try to impose on their community, I wholeheartedly agree with your viewpoint!

Be interesting to see if the LA back down and go with Plan A.
I take your point on that.
harris hole down the road (private road owned by me and Waterboard has spent the last 6 meetings complaining about the potholes. The Waterboard fixed them ten days ago and dad said at the last meeting he didn’t say a word, he didn’t mention they had been fixed or anything. He said nothing about the road at all. Thing is, it’s a private road so Waterboard didn’t need to fix them.
Some people just want something to complain about.
 
Just out of interest. Was that letter written by the consensus of the parish, or one shouty councillor
Neighboring parish where the housing is, they had a campaign group, basically lots of 60 to 90year olds from down south and a few rich but younger folk backing onto the development - same group fighting for anything they can have a say on - their 3 miles away. My local parish is similar but preoccupied with trying to get the verges mowed and complaining that someone replaced some cobble setts with tarmac on their drive - they are not involved and have no right to be really, but would if they thought they could have an opinion - They would want "oversight" of any project, they formed a geriatric committee to witness and observe the road topdressing done recently. It was a strong example of why i dont want to be bored when im older.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
Neighboring parish where the housing is, they had a campaign group, basically lots of 60 to 90year olds from down south and a few rich but younger folk backing onto the development - same group fighting for anything they can have a say on - their 3 miles away. My local parish is similar but preoccupied with trying to get the verges mowed and complaining that someone replaced some cobble setts with tarmac on their drive - they are not involved and have no right to be really, but would if they thought they could have an opinion - They would want "oversight" of any project, they formed a geriatric committee to witness and observe the road topdressing done recently. It was a strong example of why i dont want to be bored when im older.
Luvvit! :D

My wife and numerous others, have said I should go back on as being a working Farmer, I have a more pragmatic view of many topics, as well as being au fait with the happenings locally over the past..... xxxx years.

I watch from the sidelines, and help the 2-3 good Members when they are doing a project. Much less stressful!!
 
for clarity the planning officers don't want local parish involvement and I wont repeat their opinions here, but the view can be surmised as this parish councils is a form of care in the community for narcissists with dementia - and a few good eggs busy trying to keep them on topic but failing.
The issue is being pushed by county counselors responding to pressure from the parish. Obviously Ive put in writing that if it goes to committee and they even consider adding the parish's in as consultees or parties to it, then im off, Its only a deal if its private between me and the developer, we have our £ amounts agreed and the manner future payments are to be managed too (bank investment trust with fixed payments rising by RPI upto 7.5% but with a 2.5% boost for the first 3 years).
 

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HSENI names new farm safety champions

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

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The Health and Safety Executive for Northern Ireland (HSENI) alongside the Farm Safety Partnership (FSP), has named new farm safety champions and commended the outstanding work on farm safety that has been carried out in the farming community in the last 20 years.

Two of these champions are Malcom Downey, retired principal inspector for the Agri/Food team in HSENI and Harry Sinclair, current chair of the Farm Safety Partnership and former president of the Ulster Farmers’ Union (UFU).

Improving farm safety is the key aim of HSENI’s and the FSP’s work and...
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