Bit vague, Lesley.

[7610 super q]

What does replacing subsidies with an annual payment to farmers who deliver " environmental outcomes " mean please ?
I suppose what I really want to know is, do I bother wanking about planting different crops to satisfy the 3 crop rule next autumn ?

Thanks.

 

[tepapa]

I've no idea is my answer.
But my question is, how does a large lowland farm with a historical high subsidy replace that amount of sub with environmental benefit? I could see it easy for a hill farm with open mountain. But what does an intensive farm with little in the way of habitat have to do?

 

[roscoe erf]

who the f**k is Lesley

 

[Goweresque]

who the fudge is Lesley

I'm guessing Lesley Griffiths, Welsh Ag minister:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48503111

 

[Still Farming]

She was only spouting the other day about preserving them into 20/21 .
Just typical back tracking or changing of views/stance by this Assembly Labour lot.

 

[neilo]

What does replacing subsidies with an annual payment to farmers who deliver " environmental outcomes " mean please ?
I suppose what I really want to know is, do I bother wanking about planting different crops to satisfy the 3 crop rule next autumn ?

Thanks.

Nothing’s changing yet, so yes, you’ll need your 3 crops to get your sub next year.
The Welsh scheme is going to be consulted on yet, so nothing is set in stone at all and it’s (at least) a couple of years before we start changing over to it.

Of course, if Article 50 get’s revoked, her plans will be binned anyway, along with Gove’s in England.

 

[Still Farming]

Nothing’s changing yet, so yes, you’ll need your 3 crops to get your sub next year.
The Welsh scheme is going to be consulted on yet, so nothing is set in stone at all and it’s (at least) a couple of years before we start changing over to it.

Of course, if Article 50 get’s revoked, her plans will be binned anyway, along with Gove’s in England.

Labour lot binned
M4 Link roads,
Race track Wales,
Electrification London to Swansea Rail
Swansea Tidal Lagoon
Ford Factory closing.
All on their watch ,so what's new?

 

[yellow belly]

Till we know what the brexit deal ,nodeal or no brexit result is
We are still under the Eu ag policy
Plan for every eventuality but do not spend a penny doing it

This has has always been the best solution when there are proposals on ag policy since milk quotas were proposed in 1981
Until it is written in law do nothing

 

[Bury the Trash]

who the fudge is Leslie

he's the one on the left, … ..one of his daughters married 'big Phil' .

its Friday,... its 5 o'clock and ………..

 

[Brisel]

who the fudge is Lesley

You're thinking of Alice

 

[7610 super q]

You're thinking of Alice

 

[Brisel]

What does replacing subsidies with an annual payment to farmers who deliver " environmental outcomes " mean please ?
I suppose what I really want to know is, do I bother wanking about planting different crops to satisfy the 3 crop rule next autumn ?

Thanks.

Interesting what the swear filter doesn't pick up

Area based payments are going as & when we sever the funding from Brussels. The proposal is to partially replace these with what was Pillar 2 agri-environmental schemes e.g. Tir Gofal. The outcomes bit is harder to work out but there are pilot schemes in England trying to make results e.g. lower nitrates in water on a catchment scale, easier to measure & reward.

Carry on as before for the time being on the basis of the existing system. You can't second guess what hare brained schemes they will devise as an alternative but do give some thought to measures that protect trees, hedges, water, pollinator habitats etc.

 

[7610 super q]

Interesting what the swear filter doesn't pick up

Area based payments are going as & when we sever the funding from Brussels. The proposal is to partially replace these with what was Pillar 2 agri-environmental schemes e.g. Tir Gofal. The outcomes bit is harder to work out but there are pilot schemes in England trying to make results e.g. lower nitrates in water on a catchment scale, easier to measure & reward.

Carry on as before for the time being on the basis of the existing system. You can't second guess what hare brained schemes they will devise as an alternative but do give some thought to measures that protect trees, hedges, water, pollinator habitats etc.

I've got a few hedges, and that's about it. Difficult to see how paying for " environmental outcomes " will amount to much here. In some ways, be glad to see the back of it all. Only take the payments so I'm on a level playing field with everyone else selling produce for less than COP.

 

[Formatted]

I could see it easy for a hill farm with open mountain. But what does an intensive farm with little in the way of habitat have to do?

Become more intensive to make up for the loss of subsidy or become less intensive, rewild fields, reduce stocking rate, use rare breeds, open access to the public etc

 

[neilo]

I've got a few hedges, and that's about it. Difficult to see how paying for " environmental outcomes " will amount to much here. In some ways, be glad to see the back of it all. Only take the payments so I'm on a level playing field with everyone else selling produce for less than COP.

I am paid, under Glastir Advanced, to grow unsprayed root crops (swedes/turnips which I graze over winter and sprays don’t do much anyway), and to sow wild bird seed strips (Barley with a bit of mustard, DD’ed on marginal areas and gate closed). I’ve also got small patches under tree canopies, so excluded for BPS, where I am paid as ‘wood pasture’ instead, which has unlocked payments to defence round the entire ‘land parcels’.
That’s just a few examples of the ‘public goods’ that are being paid for currently, without looking at hedgerow management and such like. Lesley G was claiming that we would paid a higher rate for such things under her proposed scheme, as we can currently only be paid for ‘income foregone’.

Things will be different, that’s for sure, but we won’t necessarily be unsupported in the future......until there’s a change of government and/or policy.

 

[Still Farming]

I am paid, under Glastir Advanced, to grow unsprayed root crops (swedes/turnips which I graze over winter and sprays don’t do much anyway), and to sow wild bird seed strips (Barley with a bit of mustard, DD’ed on marginal areas and gate closed). I’ve also got small patches under tree canopies, so excluded for BPS, where I am paid as ‘wood pasture’ instead, which has unlocked payments to defence round the entire ‘land parcels’.
That’s just a few examples of the ‘public goods’ that are being paid for currently, without looking at hedgerow management and such like. Lesley G was claiming that we would paid a higher rate for such things under her proposed scheme, as we can currently only be paid for ‘income foregone’.

Things will be different, that’s for sure, but we won’t necessarily be unsupported in the future......until there’s a change of government and/or policy.

Less stock also permitted most likely.

 

[neilo]

Less stock also permitted most likely.

That's also likely to be an option, as it is in Glastir with several options. I haven't taken any options that limit stocking rates here, but then I haven't been greedy in squeezing every last point/pound out of it, so as to leave a bit of flexibility.

 

[Still Farming]

New Zealand's models will be followed possibly!

 

[Goweresque]

Lesley G was claiming that we would paid a higher rate for such things under her proposed scheme, as we can currently only be paid for ‘income foregone’.

Thats the issue with all these proposed new environmental payments, there has to be an element of 'profit' on them, otherwise its not worth signing up to. Its no good just offering grants to plant new hedges for example, as there's no money in a new hedge once its growing, indeed it costs you money.

There would have to be a grant to plant it AND an ongoing maintenance payment that paid more than the cost of maintenance, otherwise why would anyone do it? Or the maintenance payment would have to be profitable enough that people would invest their own money in putting in new hedges as there would be a return on that investment.

 

[neilo]

Thats the issue with all these proposed new environmental payments, there has to be an element of 'profit' on them, otherwise its not worth signing up to. Its no good just offering grants to plant new hedges for example, as there's no money in a new hedge once its growing, indeed it costs you money.

There would have to be a grant to plant it AND an ongoing maintenance payment that paid more than the cost of maintenance, otherwise why would anyone do it? Or the maintenance payment would have to be profitable enough that people would invest their own money in putting in new hedges as there would be a return on that investment.

I have only planted or gapped up hedges where I want to create more shelter, where I’ve wanted to join up a wildlife corridor for bats, or where I want to improve biosecurity against a neighbour’s. I certainly wouldn’t have entertained it anywhere else.

As it is, certainly for Glastir in Wales, if you can make it work for you, then it’s money for old rope. For the unsprayed roots for example, I would be growing anyway. The scheme means I get paid £200/ac for doing so. I also have 40ac of old parkland in ‘low N pasture’, which wouldn’t utilise any more than the 50kg N/ha I’m allowed to put on anyway.

Enviro schemes can be made to work, if they can fit in. The new Welsh proposals look like much the same type of thing, but with higher payments to create incentives (or that’s what we were told). Without a doubt though, we will have to be more flexible and adapt to it, much as we have (as an industry) every time support has been reformed previously.