Blackgrass friend or foe!!

[Bury the Trash]

Nobody grew continuous winter crops. There was no oil seed rape in UK before about 1970. Before the herbicide, IPU, no one would have thought of growing more than two w. Wheats in a row and that was very rarely done. Spring barley was grown, even on heavy soils. My father in law who had a very nice heavy land farm in mid suffolk, did very nicely, growing s barley and winter wheat alternately.
The biggest problems in those days were wild oats and couch grass.

Im at risk of being accussed of being simplistic but both Wild oats and couch are totally controlled now by the 'new' herbicides relevant to them.For the arguments sake what if they had not not been left/allowed to be an escalating problem? - if one focussed on their control with the means available ie using ryhzomes exhausting strategies or hand rogueing (easier said than done i know) .With black grass am i right in saying that the seed does not remain viable 'underground' for very long -if not then i cant see how it is more of a problem than W oats.(i ve had plenty of them).Burying Wild oat seed is one of the worst things you can do to it btw.
Horses for courses.

 

[franklin]

If wild oats were resistant to modern herbicides, then they would be a massive, massive problem.

 

[Badshot]

If wild oats were resistant to modern herbicides, then they would be a massive, massive problem.

Did no one else see wild oats come back in a big way this spring then? There were an awful lot of them round here this year, and I know they came back where I sprayed for them, as did a friends, even where he had avadexed.

 

[Farmer Miggins]

Nobody grew continuous winter crops. There was no oil seed rape in UK before about 1970. Before the herbicide, IPU, no one would have thought of growing more than two w. Wheats in a row and that was very rarely done. Spring barley was grown, even on heavy soils. My father in law who had a very nice heavy land farm in mid suffolk, did very nicely, growing s barley and winter wheat alternately.
The biggest problems in those days were wild oats and couch grass.

Slightly off topic, but I was told recently that the farm in Peldon where resistant blackgrass was first identified in UK is still growing continuous wheat

 

[Steevo]

Did no one else see wild oats come back in a big way this spring then? There were an awful lot of them round here this year, and I know they came back where I sprayed for them, as did a friends, even where he had avadexed.

Not a problem here at all, not even in fields that have previously had a problem. I've been hitting them hard for the past 3-4 years across the farm though.

 

[franklin]

Did no one else see wild oats come back in a big way this spring then?

Nope. We have one field which has always had one patch as long as I can remember. Didnt see many elsewhere.

 

[Badshot]

Not a problem here at all, not even in fields that have previously had a problem. I've been hitting them hard for the past 3-4 years across the farm though.

Nope. We have one field which has always had one patch as long as I can remember. Didnt see many elsewhere.

They were terrible here this year, never had a year like it for them. They just kept coming, and those that we did treat tillers out at the bottom, fine spray recommended rate etc. Just never got them completely.

Only patches and headlands but worst year for a very long time.

 

[phil]

Did no one else see wild oats come back in a big way this spring then? There were an awful lot of them round here this year, and I know they came back where I sprayed for them, as did a friends, even where he had avadexed.

I found they returned in spring, put it down to spraying early and germinating later
If the spray (axial) didn't work they would have been ripe at harvest, these were green when spring barley was ripe

 

[Doctor who]

Please read my thoughts before saying Dick Head!!

Is blackgrass a good thing as it is making us think about everything we are doing, we have started to look at cultivation systems, cropping rotations, chemical use, and of course full farming systems with regards to profit margins.I will mention I hate the problem but I also realise the can or the bag will not rid us of the problem.
When we sort Blackgrass there will be another BIG problem,
Here we go for the experts!!

Of course black grass is a bad thing but I agree totally with the basis of your question.

RR crops would be the worst thing that could possibly happen because resistance would run riot.
No new chemistry for 10 years ...a good thing right now as growers will have to engage with rotation, diversity of cropping understanding weed biology and cultivation practices to avoid weed problems.
If nothing else bg should teach us all (that have it) how easy it is to screw up when farming just becomes a financial exercise, good agricultural practice is a must for the long term even when a spring wheat is less financially attractive than a winter wheat on paper or that it doesn't matter what we do or when because we can spray our way out of it, in the long term we will fail with that approach be it weeds, disease or pests.

 

[Right-arm fast]

Of course black grass is a bad thing but I agree totally with the basis of your question.

RR crops would be the worst thing that could possibly happen because resistance would run riot.
No new chemistry for 10 years ...a good thing right now as growers will have to engage with rotation, diversity of cropping understanding weed biology and cultivation practices to avoid weed problems.
If nothing else bg should teach us all (that have it) how easy it is to screw up when farming just becomes a financial exercise, good agricultural practice is a must for the long term even when a spring wheat is less financially attractive than a winter wheat on paper or that it doesn't matter what we do or when because we can spray our way out of it, in the long term we will fail with that approach be it weeds, disease or pests.

I think that's perhaps over simplifiying it a little bit. I agree whole heartedly with Round Up Ready crops point. Perhaps GM food/crops is not the saviour it was hailed to be long term and wrong for reasons other than food safety.

 

[Right-arm fast]

Not a problem here at all, not even in fields that have previously had a problem. I've been hitting them hard for the past 3-4 years across the farm though.

Steevo you say you hit them hard. Just wondered how you tackled it. Spring Cropping, fallows, grass leys?

 

[Steevo]

Steevo you say you hit them hard. Just wondered how you tackled it. Spring Cropping, fallows, grass leys?

Purely chemical. Not the done thing I know, and not viewed as the most sustainable way to do it I'll admit but it seems to have worked well with the oats. I never found spring crops worked well as limited chemical options available. Unless you can get a good kill in the crop, controlling the population is difficult.

Blackgrass on the other hand isn't so easy, especially with the last few wet winters which encourages blackgrass but makes spraying difficult. Autumn sprays are essential (albeit expensive) imo as I don't fancy life with Atlantis resistance.

 

[Will Blackburn]

I think that's perhaps over simplifiying it a little bit. I agree whole heartedly with Round Up Ready crops point. Perhaps GM food/crops is not the saviour it was hailed to be long term and wrong for reasons other than food safety.

By not using GM we just leave ourselves with fewer options. The chemical industry isn't investing in new chemistry because GM has such a market share and does the job well. RR is not the only GM, why don't we have LL if RR is too controversial.

 

[Billericay Farm services]

Simpers Trade Counter has good advise on combating blackgrass

 

[kp_n_plghng]

If wild oats were resistant to modern herbicides, then they would be a massive, massive problem.

Don't herbicide resistant wild oats already exist, or are they only resistant to some of the products??

 

[kp_n_plghng]

Im at risk of being accussed of being simplistic but both Wild oats and couch are totally controlled now by the 'new' herbicides relevant to them.For the arguments sake what if they had not not been left/allowed to be an escalating problem? - if one focussed on their control with the means available ie using ryhzomes exhausting strategies or hand rogueing (easier said than done i know) .

There is still some mixed farms still doing hand rogueing and not using the target herbicides against wild oats. They still have wild oats but not many to be fair. Can get all the rougeing done in a couple days across about 700 acres or so, but I suppose it depends on your location and system as to whether its feasible. The farm I used to work on was still controlling wild oats through rogueing it really wasnt that bad but when i left they had just switched to spraying for them. Typical !!

 

[Brisel]

Resistant wild oats & ryegrass have been around as long as resistant blackgrass. I have ACCase resistance in wild oats on a contract unit.

 

[Will Blackburn]

There is still some mixed farms still doing hand rogueing and not using the target herbicides against wild oats. They still have wild oats but not many to be fair. Can get all the rougeing done in a couple days across about 700 acres or so, but I suppose it depends on your location and system as to whether its feasible. The farm I used to work on was still controlling wild oats through rogueing it really wasnt that bad but when i left they had just switched to spraying for them. Typical !!

We are in that category, busy year this year, but only really on the ex 100% arable farm. They kept on coming really late on.

 

[Flat 10]

Simpers Trade Counter has good advise on combating blackgrass

@SimpersTradeCounter

 

[SimpersTradeCounter]

Ha ha that was subtle.
Yes I do in fact have some good evidence to show that the 50deg-10deg twin caps with standard wide range fan jets in , with the 50deg jet trailing gives extremely good ALL ROUND coverage.
I will try to upload the pdf showing the images that we have which show their efficacy via water sensitive paper tomorrow