SilliamWhale
Member
Except that a vote demonstrated otherwise...
Blood sucking ahdb
- Thread starter White rabbit
- Start date
Except that a vote demonstrated otherwise...
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Hence my querying the assertion that it was the DEFRA survey that started it all. Consultation and ballots are a good thing, but only when the electorate vote on the basis of facts and not lies - as was obviously the case here. I only hope that the majority of voters do not live to regret their decisions.
Austin7
Member
I find myself in a sad place. I copy here a letter I wrote to Nick Saphir who I have known for over 40 years, it is a letter I have sent in similar form many times to various "leaders" of AHDB Potatoes and the Potato Council before it. Over all those years the response as been the same, it has been an arrogant disregard for the need to change. Now sadly it might well be too late. I wrote:
Nick
I forget when we last met, if we have to go back to Wep-Saphir it was 40 years ago. I should congratulate you on your new appointment but I fear that commiserate may be more appropriate. I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that without some super human effort the AHDB is a lost cause.
I don’t come to this conclusion easily as I was the father of AHDB Potatoes. Twenty five years ago I was Chairman of the then NFU Potatoes Committee at the time of the demise of the Potato Marketing Board and the setting up of the Potato Council. At the time I strongly felt that we were dealt an unfair hand. Potatoes were exempt from the rules of the single market and so whilst other EU members continued to support their growers with the end of the Board we lost all of our support. Indeed my one claim to fame is that I negotiated on behalf of the NFU the last Price Review under the 47 Act.
At the time growers were no more than evenly divided whether to support a new industry body or not, I remember well being given a rough time in Yorkshire, Lancashire, Shropshire and Cornwall, the only groups that wholeheartedly supported a new Council was the East Midlands and East Anglia and then only because Cambridge University Potato Growers Association needed to retain their funding which had come from the old PMB. It was hard work getting growers to back it.
Almost all of the funding of the then Potato Council came from Growers and I sold the continuation of a body on the need for independent market information, agronomic research and knowledge transfer ( I have never been convinced by the value of generic promotions the right product will sell itself) The catch all for disgruntled growers was that I told them that we could vote it down if we so chose.
AHDB Potatoes is failing those who fund it and to make matters even worse we now can’t even vote it out.
Independent market information.
The weekly market report is a work of fiction controlled by merchants, packers and processors purely to distort trading conditions to the disadvantage to growers. A pittance is spent on gathering data as a result rubbish in rubbish out. The staff collating the information know virtually nothing of the trade and often have never set foot in a market. The value we are achieving for our crop is double the best price shown on the weekly sheet and we are by no means the top of the trade.
When we still had the old PMB staff the saving grace of the AHDB Potatoes Market Info used to be the Weekly Price sheet now even that has gone to be replaced by an indigestible and often irrelevant jumble of website pages which collectively deliver less than the old single page of A4 which could be easily filed away.
Independent, accurate easily digestible market info is what Growers are paying for and not getting.
Agronomic research and knowledge transfer
The lack of any increase in productivity since the Potato Council and the AHDB was formed clearly demonstrates that the growers investment in R & D both previously with the Potato Marketing Board, Potato Council and now the AHDB is being almost entirely wasted. It’s not just productivity but also importantly the stagnating even deteriorating quality of the British Crop. If the French can do it why canʼt we? Go into any supermarket and look at the spuds, there is nothing to be proud of. This stagnation in quality and productivity is resulting in a Uk Potato growing sector which is not sustainable. The majority of growers are living on investments made over 30 years ago.
AHDB Potatoes seem to think that knowledge transfer should mainly depend upon comic book style depiction of basic potato growing practice more appropriate to first year students than professional potato growers. The AHDB website should be the first point of call for potato research, for us it is hardly even the last for we can never find what we are after. The frustration is that we find ourselves paying for scientific research papers from outside sources which we as levy payers have already paid for. When the old PMB packed up by far their biggest asset was 60 years of research lying in their archives. At the time I got their commitment that these would be digitalised and made available, it has never been done. You may think that old research has no value, far from it. Just now I searched the website for research on an important well known issue, the AHDB result is attached to this email. I googled it and got 76,000 responses. I know AHDB hold a huge data base of papers on Silver Scurf yet none is available except maybe in comic form.
When I was trying to sell the then new Potato Council to growers one issue kept coming up, the financial profligacy of the old Potato Marketing Board particularly with regard to pensions which growers feared would roll over into the new Council. Weren’t they absolutely right. The one saving grace of the original Potato Council was that we growers could vote it out, now that safeguard has been taken away. Certainly if there was a vote today I would be for exit.
Peter Kendall did AHDB no favours, it became little more than his offshore political kingdom following his retirement from the NFU. Most of this email is a repetition of several emails to AHDB over the last few years. Nothing is done, I fear the ship is not just lost but worse, it leaches growers enthusiasm and funds away from the task of setting up an organisation that would do the job. As I was the one who launched her that is not an easy conclusion to come to.
Good Luck !
Best Wishes
Jim
Nick
I forget when we last met, if we have to go back to Wep-Saphir it was 40 years ago. I should congratulate you on your new appointment but I fear that commiserate may be more appropriate. I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that without some super human effort the AHDB is a lost cause.
I don’t come to this conclusion easily as I was the father of AHDB Potatoes. Twenty five years ago I was Chairman of the then NFU Potatoes Committee at the time of the demise of the Potato Marketing Board and the setting up of the Potato Council. At the time I strongly felt that we were dealt an unfair hand. Potatoes were exempt from the rules of the single market and so whilst other EU members continued to support their growers with the end of the Board we lost all of our support. Indeed my one claim to fame is that I negotiated on behalf of the NFU the last Price Review under the 47 Act.
At the time growers were no more than evenly divided whether to support a new industry body or not, I remember well being given a rough time in Yorkshire, Lancashire, Shropshire and Cornwall, the only groups that wholeheartedly supported a new Council was the East Midlands and East Anglia and then only because Cambridge University Potato Growers Association needed to retain their funding which had come from the old PMB. It was hard work getting growers to back it.
Almost all of the funding of the then Potato Council came from Growers and I sold the continuation of a body on the need for independent market information, agronomic research and knowledge transfer ( I have never been convinced by the value of generic promotions the right product will sell itself) The catch all for disgruntled growers was that I told them that we could vote it down if we so chose.
AHDB Potatoes is failing those who fund it and to make matters even worse we now can’t even vote it out.
Independent market information.
The weekly market report is a work of fiction controlled by merchants, packers and processors purely to distort trading conditions to the disadvantage to growers. A pittance is spent on gathering data as a result rubbish in rubbish out. The staff collating the information know virtually nothing of the trade and often have never set foot in a market. The value we are achieving for our crop is double the best price shown on the weekly sheet and we are by no means the top of the trade.
When we still had the old PMB staff the saving grace of the AHDB Potatoes Market Info used to be the Weekly Price sheet now even that has gone to be replaced by an indigestible and often irrelevant jumble of website pages which collectively deliver less than the old single page of A4 which could be easily filed away.
Independent, accurate easily digestible market info is what Growers are paying for and not getting.
Agronomic research and knowledge transfer
The lack of any increase in productivity since the Potato Council and the AHDB was formed clearly demonstrates that the growers investment in R & D both previously with the Potato Marketing Board, Potato Council and now the AHDB is being almost entirely wasted. It’s not just productivity but also importantly the stagnating even deteriorating quality of the British Crop. If the French can do it why canʼt we? Go into any supermarket and look at the spuds, there is nothing to be proud of. This stagnation in quality and productivity is resulting in a Uk Potato growing sector which is not sustainable. The majority of growers are living on investments made over 30 years ago.
AHDB Potatoes seem to think that knowledge transfer should mainly depend upon comic book style depiction of basic potato growing practice more appropriate to first year students than professional potato growers. The AHDB website should be the first point of call for potato research, for us it is hardly even the last for we can never find what we are after. The frustration is that we find ourselves paying for scientific research papers from outside sources which we as levy payers have already paid for. When the old PMB packed up by far their biggest asset was 60 years of research lying in their archives. At the time I got their commitment that these would be digitalised and made available, it has never been done. You may think that old research has no value, far from it. Just now I searched the website for research on an important well known issue, the AHDB result is attached to this email. I googled it and got 76,000 responses. I know AHDB hold a huge data base of papers on Silver Scurf yet none is available except maybe in comic form.
When I was trying to sell the then new Potato Council to growers one issue kept coming up, the financial profligacy of the old Potato Marketing Board particularly with regard to pensions which growers feared would roll over into the new Council. Weren’t they absolutely right. The one saving grace of the original Potato Council was that we growers could vote it out, now that safeguard has been taken away. Certainly if there was a vote today I would be for exit.
Peter Kendall did AHDB no favours, it became little more than his offshore political kingdom following his retirement from the NFU. Most of this email is a repetition of several emails to AHDB over the last few years. Nothing is done, I fear the ship is not just lost but worse, it leaches growers enthusiasm and funds away from the task of setting up an organisation that would do the job. As I was the one who launched her that is not an easy conclusion to come to.
Good Luck !
Best Wishes
Jim
Tarw Coch
Member
- Location
- Bottom of Wats Dyke
Even if they lose the potato vote, it’s still down to the government minister to decide their fate but if they do go there will need to be redundancies, who will pick up that bill? Those leaving or the other sectors ?
They remove the H from their name.
Save some ink if nart else
- Location
- Hayling Island
Austin7 your letter to Nick Saphir highlights the very sorry state of the ahdb today. It is sad that they have reached the state of farmers resenting them, to the point where they have had to force a ballot to show their discontent. Your letter sums up the situation very well, I hope Nickolas Saphir responds to your letter, but I doubt it. Like red tractor their attitude towards farmers is to be seen to consult but not to listen.
Some farmers resent them
- Location
- Hayling Island
We will know how many soon, Defa seems to agree a ballot is necessary now for all sections. Rigged ballots and consultation are the cause of the discontent some of the so called facts put out by red tractor and ahdb insult our intelligence.
I don't resent them, as far as beef and lamb is concerned I won't be falling over myself to get rid of them.
would rather see the back of RT cos although I am not a member I do pay towards them and I think they do a lot of harm
Austin7
Member
The letter was written back in May last year. Nick Saphir responded both by email and a long phone conversation. Nick is a good man but unfortunately the potato ship was already holed below the water line. Having had a long interest in Agricultural Politics I should be an easy target for their pre vote propaganda but all I hear is AHDB's bureaucratic navel gazing. I know from experience 25 years ago that the Levy body concept is a difficult one to sell to growers. Listening to their presentations it is clear to me AHDB are not at the starting gate in understanding what they need to offer growers in return for their vote of confidence. The potato sector needs strong leadership. Anybody still left growing spuds is a hard headed character, it is an optional form of self torture. The leader of AHDB Potatoes has to knowledgeably match the constituency he ( I am not objecting to she) serves, he needs to be a respected practical Potato Man. At the moment that vital ingredient is missing. I fear the vote will be lost. If it is then it is up to the Minister to decide the way forward. I hope we have learned enough about Yes - No votes to accept that they are not an end of the road, they are just us turning our back on the past, the future is up for grabs. Hopefully we have a Minister up to the task of enabling that future. The Red Tractor story is for another day.
Bestriding Spraak
New Member
Which part of this vote were lies? The vote was clear YES or NO and the result was clear too.
Horticulture has paid disproportionate to all other sectors and growers voted to stop it.
If you are paying to another sector of AHDB and getting good value then good luck and carry on but if not you know who to thank for paving the way forward now George Eustice will ballot all other sectors.
It also shows that desperation and persistence pays off when like minded people work together, it’s no use moaning and criticising if your not prepared to do something about it.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
White Rabbit’s campaign was pretty much all based around lies.
That’s not true - on a percentage of turnover, they are all very similar and Horti certainly doesn’t come out as worst.
That was announced some time ago on a five year rotation - certainly well before anything was initiated for the Horti vote.
Sadly it also shows that truth doesn’t always win and that a repeated lie can beat it. That’s the bit that saddens me most - the livelihoods of men and women have been damaged because they were bound by contract to tell the truth and WR and his ilk could lie as much as they wanted. Because they played by the rules, they lost.
Bestriding Spraak
New Member
So what were the lies then?
What saddens me is the livelihoods of those who produce the fresh food the nation enjoys and is essential for their health are socially deprived by working 7 days a week , high pressure,long hours, huge investments and in many cases almost no return on their investment yet still being forced to contribute to keep 500 men and women you speak about and the management of AHDB in the life of luxury and huge pension. Obviously you haven’t handed over half a million or more like some levy payers have judging by your pathetic comments. Are you one of the 500 at AHDB?
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Read back a few pages - I’m not going to reiterate it again.
And no, I have no connection with AHDB. My comments are not pathetic either, but entirely factual.
- Location
- Hayling Island
The biggest lie come from the ahdb in trying to influence the ministers decision on the ballot. No one seems to know how they linked a yes/no vote to the amount of levy paid by each voter. This could even have been concocted to suit the ahdb propaganda machine, but in any case was not part of the ballot.
Bestriding Spraak
New Member
Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion and that’s why the ballot is in the statute.
Horticulture has spoken, Potato growers now have their chance to decide.
As for the rest of you, I hope you continue paying and receive good value for money which obviously you are but if not you know what to do.
Horticulture has spoken, Potato growers now have their chance to decide.
As for the rest of you, I hope you continue paying and receive good value for money which obviously you are but if not you know what to do.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Do you even know that AHDB did that? The ballot results including weighting were from the ballot company and not from AHDB.
Where’s the lie anyway ? If you’re sure it’s a lie, you must have evidence that the data is incorrect, surely?
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
Who have you asked?