Boris is doing well

[rob1]

That can also be the case if the society is “accepting”, which in my opinion is a more realistic description than yours.

Which countries do you think are better at the other description than the UK ? Im not sure how many other countries other than the US that have such a huge number of different nationalities than the UK, probably due to the language

 

[JP1]

Farage panning him on LBC tonight and JRM for selling out

 

[bobk]

Farage panning him on LBC tonight and JRM for selling out

Farage isn't Prime Minister , just a pundit , shouldn't you be on channel 4 jezza ?

 

[JP1]

Farage isn't Prime Minister , just a pundit , shouldn't you be on channel 4 jezza ?

Not until 7pm
Balanced listening although the first hour is harder going than the latter

 

[stewart]

Which countries do you think are better at the other description than the UK ? Im not sure how many other countries other than the US that have such a huge number of different nationalities than the UK, probably due to the language

The UK has numerous peoples from different nationalities, that does not make the country tolerant, accepting or understanding, I find quite the opposite whenever I go back to the UK, it is one of the worst countries I visit for lack of understanding, tolerance and blatant racism.

 

[jendan]

Perhaps you did not "need" to respond three times, but you chose to do so, therefore something had to motivate you to do it. Neither did I "need" to spend so long in making my response, which I said was "close to two hours" not over two hours - but I chose to do so, just the same as you chose, and as I responded to @bobk that included time spent sidetracking onto other matters. The post was not written purely for your benefit, it is an open post to anyone, and is merely a continuation of my attitude to the now EU since I was a schoolboy. I will continue to correct the myth that the UK only joined a trading group. I had to repeat it again last night. The number of time this myth is repeated on this forum alone shows that there is still a lot of misinformation i the public domain and people are probably no better informed than they ever were about the EU and its goals

Obviously the "likes" you received were from the usual people who do not like my views and at least often, if not usually, find a way of letting me know they do not like what I post. I am sure you will have noticed that Leavers also "like" posts their fellow leavers make and I received "like" from those who usually support my posts. On both sides it not necessary to see who is giving the "like" signal, unless to check an abnormally high tally to see who the extra is. To be fair to one of your normal supporters @le bon paysan I repeat a post I made a couple of weeks ago that he often takes a more pragmatic view of others' posts. Even @czechmate will give me the odd "like" on non Brexit posts.

You have not demonstrated in any way that anything I posted was "utter rubbish" and neither have any of your supporters, the reason being it was not. You have not been able to refute anything in the post I made. If it had been "utter rubbish" then I am sure you would have taken every opportunity to demolish it, as would your supporters. We disagree on the comment being derogatory.

I accept your decision that you think it is better to remain in the EU in site of all its problems. That is your prerogative, but if I can persuade a few people that it is not a good idea then I will be content. There may well be a third referendum.

Available for everyone to read; fullfact.org/europe-Explaining the EU deal;an "ever closer union". It completely demolishes everything you have written in your posts.

 

[caveman]

The UK has numerous peoples from different nationalities, that does not make the country tolerant, accepting or understanding, I find quite the opposite whenever I go back to the UK, it is one of the worst countries I visit for lack of understanding, tolerance and blatant racism.

That'll be because we accept the dregs as well as the good from all over.

 

[stewart]

That'll be because we accept the dregs as well as the good from all over.

At least you are admitting to the lack of tolerance, understanding and the blatant racism.

 

[caveman]

At least you are admitting to the lack of tolerance, understanding and the blatant racism.

Take a squint at the England Bulgaria footie game going on at the mo.

 

[stewart]

Take a squint at the England Bulgaria footie game going on at the mo.

I wouldn’t judge a country by a few yobs at a soccer match.

 

[caveman]

I wouldn’t judge a country by a few yobs at a soccer match.

I wouldn't judge a country by a couple of its gobby wind up immigrants either.

 

[Old McDonald]

Going off topic slightly how does the the UK differ from the EU?

3 (2) devolved governments trying to shape the country they are in but with limited scope to do so from the elected by them burocrats in Westminster

I hope that is not a serious request for me to post all the differences. It would be too time consuming. I am sure you know enough to be aware of many differences without anyone spelling them out for you.

 

[Bankville]

I hope that is not a serious request for me to post all the differences. It would be too time consuming. I am sure you know enough to be aware of many differences without anyone spelling them out for you.

Dont trouble yourself, I'll admit I dont know all the differences but there are alot of similarities.

 

[rob1]

I wouldn’t judge a country by a few yobs at a soccer match.

Yet you judge the Uk and other countries you visit from a few encounters, smacks of predetermination to me

 

[Old McDonald]

Available for everyone to read; fullfact.org/europe-Explaining the EU deal;an "ever closer union". It completely demolishes everything you have written in your posts.

Really?

My post #112 is the one you said was utter rubbish. I spent a fair bit of time checking through fullfacts yesterday and saw nothing that refutes anything I posted in #112. If you think otherwise then please quote the relevant part of the article concerned.

My next post #141 was almost entirely extracts copied directly from Hansard and EU sources and I note your ignoring of those parts that were not copied from such sources - e.g. re your "peanuts" claim about £9bn p.a.; your claim that any member state could easily have itself thrown out of the EU and your claim that there has been peace in Europe since the formation of what is now the EU. I would have been interested in your responses on these matters and they could have been the basis for a debate. Instead you choose to ridicule me without foundation.

I have posted very little in any Brexit related post that is personal opinion, preferring to bring to members' attention the actual documentation so they can read it for themselves. Again, please refer to me any part of any article in fullfacts, or even elsewhere, that "completely demolishes everything" that I have posted. It is a an extremely wide ranging expression "completely demolishes everything" and I am amazed you so flippantly use it in respect of the copy of official dosumentation that I used. It is not possible to demolish even a tiny part of such documentation.

I appreciate that, as I posted, we are diametrically opposed on Brexit, but do not use expressions that you cannot justify. You have already said that despite the problems of the EU you prefer to Remain and I acknowledged that as your prerogative. I would have expected you to reciprocate, especially since I have never made any of the outlandish claims of some on the Leave side. That is unlike you who wrongly claimed that what you posted was the real part of the Treaty of Rome and I had cut it short. Acknowledging you were wrong might have mollified @stewart who thinks you were correct and you reinforce that notion by giving him a "like" when he referred to it in a post that quoted it. Do you not think you have a duty to tell people like him who repeat your words as being true that you were in fact mistaken?

 

[Hindsight]

I follow these threads with interest. The usual suspects on here rabbiting on about the EU subjugating a once proud UK into a position of vassal region of an EU super state. Cinderella!.

Yet, as I read today's paper I see that in Poland they just do as they care. Not a vassalage in sight. Hey ho, bemused as ever.


Benefits boom pushes Polish populists to victory
Oliver Moody, Berlin
October 14 2019, 12:01am, The Times

• Europe
• European Union
• Global politics
• Politics
• Law

Polls suggested that the Law and Justice party may have claimed nearly half of all the votes castDARKO BANDIC/AP
Share
Save
Poland’s right-wing populist ruling party declared a resounding general election victory last night, having galvanised the rural vote through generous welfare handouts and hardline positions on gay rights and immigration.
The Law and Justice (PiS) party was on course to take an absolute majority of seats in the Sejm, Poland’s lower house, claiming about 44 per cent of the votes cast. While this was a little short of the landslide that some pollsters had predicted, it would be the most emphatic winning margin since the collapse of the eastern bloc 30 years ago.
The alliance of liberal opposition parties, Civic Coalition, was forecast to come a distant second with about 27 per cent of the vote, according to an exit poll. The final result is expected today.
Observers say PiS could use its newly cemented power base to pass laws limiting the freedom of the press and curbing the independence of the judiciary.
Last month three former presidents, including Lech Walesa, 76, a national hero in the struggle against communist rule, warned in an open letter that Poland risked “continuing to roll towards an authoritarian dictatorship” if the party returned to government.

Jaroslaw Kaczynski, 70, PiS’s co-founder and éminence grise, struck an unexpectedly subdued note in his victory speech last night. “We must reflect on . . . what caused some parts of society to decide not to support us,” he told a party gathering. “We have four years of hard work ahead of us, because Poland must change further and must change for the better.”
In a deeply Catholic country where the rewards of shaking off communism and joining the European Union have been unevenly distributed, PiS has developed a potent electoral formula of social conservatism and fiscal largesse.
The party has raised the minimum wage at breakneck pace, lowered the retirement age from 67 to 60 and introduced a wildly popular system of benefits for families with children.
This time PiS has also promised preventive medical screenings for every Pole over 40, two extra months of pensions payments a year and farming subsidies on a par with France or Germany.
The party has also cast itself as the champion of a Christian way of life that it portrays as being under siege from secularism, liberalism, Muslim immigration and, above all, homosexuality. In government it has clamped down firmly on sex education and abolished a quango combating racism and intolerance. Mr Kaczynski once infamously described gay people as “perverts”.
PiS is expected to capitalise on its victory to consolidate its grip on the organs of Polish public life. Warsaw is already in a tussle with the EU over its attempts to seize political control of the justice system. Last week it was referred to the European Court of Justice for a reform that permits it to try to put sanctions on judges over their decisions.
Party officials have indicated that the media are likely to become the next battleground. The government has argued that professional journalists should be regulated by the state.

 

[rob1]

I follow these threads with interest. The usual suspects on here rabbiting on about the EU subjugating a once proud UK into a position of vassal region of an EU super state. Cinderella!.

Yet, as I read today's paper I see that in Poland they just do as they care. Not a vassalage in sight. Hey ho, bemused as ever.


Benefits boom pushes Polish populists to victory
Oliver Moody, Berlin
October 14 2019, 12:01am, The Times

• Europe
• European Union
• Global politics
• Politics
• Law

Polls suggested that the Law and Justice party may have claimed nearly half of all the votes castDARKO BANDIC/AP
Share
Save
Poland’s right-wing populist ruling party declared a resounding general election victory last night, having galvanised the rural vote through generous welfare handouts and hardline positions on gay rights and immigration.
The Law and Justice (PiS) party was on course to take an absolute majority of seats in the Sejm, Poland’s lower house, claiming about 44 per cent of the votes cast. While this was a little short of the landslide that some pollsters had predicted, it would be the most emphatic winning margin since the collapse of the eastern bloc 30 years ago.
The alliance of liberal opposition parties, Civic Coalition, was forecast to come a distant second with about 27 per cent of the vote, according to an exit poll. The final result is expected today.
Observers say PiS could use its newly cemented power base to pass laws limiting the freedom of the press and curbing the independence of the judiciary.
Last month three former presidents, including Lech Walesa, 76, a national hero in the struggle against communist rule, warned in an open letter that Poland risked “continuing to roll towards an authoritarian dictatorship” if the party returned to government.

Jaroslaw Kaczynski, 70, PiS’s co-founder and éminence grise, struck an unexpectedly subdued note in his victory speech last night. “We must reflect on . . . what caused some parts of society to decide not to support us,” he told a party gathering. “We have four years of hard work ahead of us, because Poland must change further and must change for the better.”
In a deeply Catholic country where the rewards of shaking off communism and joining the European Union have been unevenly distributed, PiS has developed a potent electoral formula of social conservatism and fiscal largesse.
The party has raised the minimum wage at breakneck pace, lowered the retirement age from 67 to 60 and introduced a wildly popular system of benefits for families with children.
This time PiS has also promised preventive medical screenings for every Pole over 40, two extra months of pensions payments a year and farming subsidies on a par with France or Germany.
The party has also cast itself as the champion of a Christian way of life that it portrays as being under siege from secularism, liberalism, Muslim immigration and, above all, homosexuality. In government it has clamped down firmly on sex education and abolished a quango combating racism and intolerance. Mr Kaczynski once infamously described gay people as “perverts”.
PiS is expected to capitalise on its victory to consolidate its grip on the organs of Polish public life. Warsaw is already in a tussle with the EU over its attempts to seize political control of the justice system. Last week it was referred to the European Court of Justice for a reform that permits it to try to put sanctions on judges over their decisions.
Party officials have indicated that the media are likely to become the next battleground. The government has argued that professional journalists should be regulated by the state.

Except if you read the last couple of paragraphs the EU arent happy with whats going on, and I hope @stewart is looking in

 

[Hindsight]

Except if you read the last couple of paragraphs the EU arent happy with whats going on, and I hope @stewart is looking in

Yes I have read the last paragraphs and am aware the EU is uncomfortable with some of the political direction of travel and decisions being made in Poland. And so am I to an extent as we have seen this evening in Sofia different social standards. Presume the EU was not happy with rise of UKIP over past 10 years. But there will be differences between countries within the EU and UK was no different. Anyway irrelevant now as UK leaves EU.

 

[jendan]

Really?

My post #112 is the one you said was utter rubbish. I spent a fair bit of time checking through fullfacts yesterday and saw nothing that refutes anything I posted in #112. If you think otherwise then please quote the relevant part of the article concerned.

My next post #141 was almost entirely extracts copied directly from Hansard and EU sources and I note your ignoring of those parts that were not copied from such sources - e.g. re your "peanuts" claim about £9bn p.a.; your claim that any member state could easily have itself thrown out of the EU and your claim that there has been peace in Europe since the formation of what is now the EU. I would have been interested in your responses on these matters and they could have been the basis for a debate. Instead you choose to ridicule me without foundation.

I have posted very little in any Brexit related post that is personal opinion, preferring to bring to members' attention the actual documentation so they can read it for themselves. Again, please refer to me any part of any article in fullfacts, or even elsewhere, that "completely demolishes everything" that I have posted. It is a an extremely wide ranging expression "completely demolishes everything" and I am amazed you so flippantly use it in respect of the copy of official dosumentation that I used. It is not possible to demolish even a tiny part of such documentation.

I appreciate that, as I posted, we are diametrically opposed on Brexit, but do not use expressions that you cannot justify. You have already said that despite the problems of the EU you prefer to Remain and I acknowledged that as your prerogative. I would have expected you to reciprocate, especially since I have never made any of the outlandish claims of some on the Leave side. That is unlike you who wrongly claimed that what you posted was the real part of the Treaty of Rome and I had cut it short. Acknowledging you were wrong might have mollified @stewart who thinks you were correct and you reinforce that notion by giving him a "like" when he referred to it in a post that quoted it. Do you not think you have a duty to tell people like him who repeat your words as being true that you were in fact mistaken?

They are not "my" words,but from fullfact.org/europe. Why should i rewrite everything on it parrot fashion when everyone can read. Hansard merely records all debates in the H of C in writing.You rewrote one of Camerons speechs to the H of C,nothing else. I have reread the original T of R. It always uses the term "the peoples" and NOT "the governments",so fullfacts have it right.What "EU sources" are you claiming to have copied? You can argue the £9 billion as much as you want.I think it is money well spent to be part of one of the largest free trading blocks in the world,with 500 million customers right on our doorstep.Your replies are ridiculously long winded,you must have alot of spare time on your hands.

 

[Highland Mule]

we were part of the ever closer union of European states.

Nope - for one who claims to check everything you’ve got that part wrong. The ToR states: