Boris........

Still Farming

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South Wales UK
Tin hat on but the government have been totally useless.The local building and groundworks firms are operating here. They had the intelligence to bulk buy diesel, parts, ppe and extra welfare vans back in January, knowing full well that we would be facing a disaster.

In comparison, the government sent our NHS workers, supermarket staff, bus drivers and many other public services staff to their death, by not providing ppe or any risk assessment strategy. The advice changes on a daily basis, they make it up as they go.

Even their own staff don't believe them, just look at the chief medical officer in Scotland who stuck two fingers up at the guidelines.

Why supermarket checkouts did not have perspex screens fitted months ago is beyond me, a single infected checkout operative had the potential to infect a thousand shoppers a day.

As harsh as it sounds and I apologise to the loyal Conservatives, the government only started to take the virus seriously when politicians started showing symptoms themselves, before that point it was a case of lets adopt herd immunity, it will only kill off plebs.
You could of had Corbyn and Diane Abbott running the show?
She wanted Holby city and Casualty actors to help nhs out FFS ???
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Hi, just to comment on your point.

There have been a few radio 4 programmes past few days interviewing scientists involved with viral research to use a collective term. Thy have been saying that SARS and MERS were less deadly because the infection rate was very low. But the vorologist community have always been scared a new virus (which is CV19) could be different and with greater infectivity. This is why SOuth Korea had such an effective plan in place. Worth listening to a few of those programmes.

The impression is governments were not necessarily concerned as it seemed an unlikely event - except to those who understood the potential issue. But same could be said for many things. I doubt any would have been listened to if the had told Boris he should close airports and introduce lockdown. After all Mr Trump was a denier for many weeks.

Hey ho.

The initial response to the virus in the west seemed blasé and careless to my mind. The idea of restricting movement was so at odds with the whole western ethos that they wouldn’t contemplate it and remained largely in denial of the seriousness of the risk. They couldn’t grasp that a virus won’t respect high ideals only rigourous containment. Standing shoulder to shoulder and keeping borders open helped it spread rapidly.
Whether we could have contained and eradicated the virus is something we will never know, yet the Chinese persist in claiming they have it largely under control. I am not claiming to know one way or the other but somehow dragging our feet on this seemed to waste a valuable opportunity. That’s my gut feeling, I am not an expert.
 
The initial response to the virus in the west seemed blasé and careless to my mind. The idea of restricting movement was so at odds with the whole western ethos that they wouldn’t contemplate it and remained largely in denial of the seriousness of the risk. They couldn’t grasp that a virus won’t respect high ideals only rigourous containment. Standing shoulder to shoulder and keeping borders open helped it spread rapidly.
Whether we could have contained and eradicated the virus is something we will never know, yet the Chinese persist in claiming they have it largely under control. I am not claiming to know one way or the other but somehow dragging our feet on this seemed to waste a valuable opportunity. That’s my gut feeling, I am not an expert.

Hindsight and everyone would agree with you. I think weve collectively had to learn a painful lesson.
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
You are making the figures up!

And HOW can you be SO SURE that NO ONE had the virus in March/ Feb etc??

Especially given the first recorded case in the UK was at the end of Jan....

Kinda shoots your argument out of the water....................

So check your facts first...
Come off it, what figures am I making up? :scratchhead: The only figures in my calculation that are not actual known figures are that we cant be sure what proportion will eventually get the virus and your 95% figure for mild cases!

I am not saying no one had the virus in Jan or Feb but we are talking about a handful of people in a population of 6.6million, a tiny fraction of those who claim they had it but in reality had other colds and flu's.
 

Ukjay

Member
Location
Wales!
My wife works for the NHS (gp) I personally asked a local dairy farm to donate gloves for the cleaners at the hospital, as supplies were so short a few weeks ago. For me that is poor planning.

We make ppe in this country all the government had to do was pump money into these companies back in December, it really isn't difficult.

Hindsight is one of those most fascinating things when it comes to saying what should / should not have been done without having 'All' / or indeed 'Most' of the facts to hand - so taking your somewhat questionable post further, could you please kindly share with us all; what you actually sent across to the 'WHO' / Current Government to show them your Mathematical Modelling of the virus path and mortality rates from the December warnings you suggest to substantiate your claim, as I (along with many others on here I beleive), would be very interested to see this report and how it has aligned to the current state of the pandemic?
Maybe then we can say for certain that the Government made the wrong choices / decisions avoiding any hypothesis and assumptions we may have!

Apologies, but I can not stand up for a government who sent doctors and nurses to the front line without ppe and made no provision for nursing homes where the most vulnerable patients reside.

Sorry, the government haven't sent anyone to the front line without the relevant PPE exactly, as noone could predict this would be the global pandemic that it has turned out to be with any certainty in the early days / weeks, and of important note, they do not control the stocks of PPE in the hospitals etc.
That to my knowledge is undertaken by the NHS staff who are responsible for the stock control the bugets etc.. whereby one would have thought that they would have had insight into stocks and lead times of the goods they purchase, even down to possible clauses imposed on contracts for external stock levels as contingency planning.. Nothing to do with the Government directly...
Clearly it is / has been a collective scope that involved many different groups to come to these decisions, and the whole world has been caught on the hop.

I would urge to maybe cut the guy some slack here seeing as he is actually dealing with something of such a magnitude that you or I have never / will never deal with in our lifetime, and yet he still tried to keep the country running despite being ill himself whether you accept that or not.
He may not be everyone's cup of Tea, but I believe he is / was doing the best that could have been done reasonably in such a short window of time with the uncertainty of credible information to hand. You see there is a lot you and I do not know or are aware of, yet some come out showing how easy everything is..

I believe you also fail to understand that the suppliers of said PPE would not have had the resources / raw materials to get the complexities of scale of PPE required across the UK made in such a short time due to potentially low / std scope inventory levels, as they would not have been holding significant surplus stock in the UK and were more than likely not forseeing the extremes we are seeing now through the pandemic impact.
I would then suggest we would need to also factor the supply chain of the raw materials, whereby I would ponder that they will probably be including materials imported from oversees companies, again - many would have been hit due to the pandemic.. again increasing lead times..

You also forget to show that a lot of the shortages have been driven by everyone panic buying and storing massive home stocks - so again, this is not in the control of the governement initially, and the large organisations the outlets to keep selling high volumes of them to JP, were they equally guilty of allowing this to continue without a due diligence, as there is now no reserve stocks for the NHS etc should the proverbial hit the fan as it has??

Yes, the government can lock things down further - but who raises the alarm bells to them to get this drawn up and when, the suppliers who in all honesty simply saw this in the initial weeks as panic buying and not necessary, thus where does it end.
Not all decisions can be made off the bat - and you would hope that people will listen and take note of things, but sadly we all know that is not the case in reality.. but now moan that the NHS is not able to help them as no stocks of certain items (and Im not talking ventilators here, as the demand is probably somewhat significantly out of the statistical norm, my guess but I cannot say with certainty)..

It's all easy when we sit behind a keyboard and blame others without knowing the full specifics, but I will sit on the fence and say that there would have been talks about securing these things in volume to be told that supply will be in X time due to raw material deficit...

For me, it is a time that everyone needs to pull together - not continue the self preservation mode that has started to transpire initially via panic buying leaving others without.
 

Bald Rick

Moderator
Livestock Farmer
Location
Anglesey
Tin hat on but the government have been totally useless.The local building and groundworks firms are operating here. They had the intelligence to bulk buy diesel, parts, ppe and extra welfare vans back in January, knowing full well that we would be facing a disaster.

In comparison, the government sent our NHS workers, supermarket staff, bus drivers and many other public services staff to their death, by not providing ppe or any risk assessment strategy. The advice changes on a daily basis, they make it up as they go.

Even their own staff don't believe them, just look at the chief medical officer in Scotland who stuck two fingers up at the guidelines.

Why supermarket checkouts did not have perspex screens fitted months ago is beyond me, a single infected checkout operative had the potential to infect a thousand shoppers a day.

As harsh as it sounds and I apologise to the loyal Conservatives, the government only started to take the virus seriously when politicians started showing symptoms themselves, before that point it was a case of lets adopt herd immunity, it will only kill off plebs.

Remember this ..........

1586256848867.png


Oh how we laughed .........
 

Bald Rick

Moderator
Livestock Farmer
Location
Anglesey
Hi, just to comment on your point.

There have been a few radio 4 programmes past few days interviewing scientists involved with viral research to use a collective term. Thy have been saying that SARS and MERS were less deadly because the infection rate was very low. But the vorologist community have always been scared a new virus (which is CV19) could be different and with greater infectivity. This is why SOuth Korea had such an effective plan in place. Worth listening to a few of those programmes.

The impression is governments were not necessarily concerned as it seemed an unlikely event - except to those who understood the potential issue. But same could be said for many things. I doubt any would have been listened to if the had told Boris he should close airports and introduce lockdown. After all Mr Trump was a denier for many weeks.

Hey ho.

I suspect with an unstable despot as your neighbour who could, at any time, unleash biological weapons you would make sure that you were well up to speed with testing, PPE and anything else that would help

Mind you, and come to think of it, we have France on one side & Ireland on the other .............
 

Smith31

Member
Provide links to credible sources if you can. Stop deflecting.

You provide links to credible sources to prove that the government were not aware of the virus in November 2019.

The Chinese doctor who raised the concerns over the internet has gone missing, I have no intention of travelling to China to go look for him.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
I suspect with an unstable despot as your neighbour who could, at any time, unleash biological weapons you would make sure that you were well up to speed with testing, PPE and anything else that would help

Mind you, and come to think of it, we have France on one side & Ireland on the other .............

You have made me think now. As a Fenman born below sea level with a full complement of six toes on one foot and seven on the other I am getting very distrustful of all 'foreigners' !!!!! So anyone outside of my village really. At least I know they are all closely related.
 
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Chae1

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Posted at 20:13
BREAKING Boris Johnson moved to intensive care
UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has been moved into intensive care in a London hospital.


Interested why so many people like this post?

As said in another thread this virus has shown a lot about human nature, when tff members like the fact the PM has been put in intensive care.

Here he is speaking to my son, when he came to visit us to learn about agriculture. Im the fatty in loose fitting shirt.

Get well soon Boris.

IMG-20190907-WA0008.jpg
 
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Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
You provide links to credible sources to prove that the government were not aware of the virus in November 2019.

The Chinese doctor who raised the concerns over the internet has gone missing, I have no intention of travelling to China to go look for him.
You made an assertion that you can't back up in any way and are asking me to prove a negative... :banghead: :ROFLMAO:

That's you receipted and filed as a time-waster.
 

Smith31

Member
You made an assertion that you can't back up in any way and are asking me to prove a negative... :banghead: :ROFLMAO:

That's you receipted and filed as a time-waster.

Apologies in the tractor, please Google South China Morning Post who can confirm the first case was confirmed on 17/11/2019, they claim to have seen government documents.

You may not be aware of Facebook, WhatsApp and other communication outlets but those within the medical profession raised concerns back then. I am sure our government were aware, if The Sun newspaper were!

The medical profession were mostly ignored by politicians, Mr Trump is a prime example.

China alerted WHO on 31/12/2019, yet our government with a multi million pound budget, thousands of staff members, numerous departments were still struggling with simple tasks such as providing NHS staff with PPE in mid March. If abattoirs and dairy farmers have 2 months worth of ppe why didn't the NHS? Sheer incompetence that's why.

The government were also failing to tell travellers who had arrived from China, Iran etc to self isolate upon arrival, they were jumping into taxis, trains buses and heading home, followed by the pub.

Instead of hurling personal insults at GUTH, could I kindly suggest you remove your head from inside Mr Johnsons anal canal and have a look around, as the poor chap has enough to contend with already.
 

Hilly

Member
Interested why so many people like this post?

As said in another thread this virus has shown a lot about human nature, when tff members like the fact the PM has been put in intensive care.

Here he is speaking to my son, when he came to visit us to learn about agriculture. Im the fatty in loose fitting shirt.

Get well soon Boris.

View attachment 868942
If members here have said that they are pleased out pm is in intensive care they should be banned from this forum, pure scum nothing else . Good photo Chae & get well soon Boris.
 

MrNoo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Cirencester
Dr John Campbell mentioned 17th Nov as first recorded case in China, if so and you take into account a minimum of 5-14 days incubation period, that takes you up to the beginning of Nov.
The States recon they've had it circa since Christmas time, not recorded as doctors werent looking for it or testing for it. Saw an article on Twitter saying that death rates had spiked end of Nov and Dec there but were put down to flu etc.
A lot of people in this country have said they suffered from symptoms Dec/Jan, be interesting to see the death rates compared to normal years for this period. I personally think it's been out the bottle a lot longer than we think.
I am sure in due course we may find out a bit more about this.
 

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