Bounce back loans

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
Had an interesting chat yesterday with the accountant, and touched on the self employed support payment at the height of covid last year... I think there were 5 in total...?

Apparently, there are a few less than aware types, not declaring the payment in their tax returns.... HMRC have their computers flagging up any inconsistencies in returns and are looking hard at questionable activities.

We took one payment, and it went straight into the business a/c and was shown as income.
 

Renaultman

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Darlington
Had an interesting chat yesterday with the accountant, and touched on the self employed support payment at the height of covid last year... I think there were 5 in total...?

Apparently, there are a few less than aware types, not declaring the payment in their tax returns.... HMRC have their computers flagging up any inconsistencies in returns and are looking hard at questionable activities.

We took one payment, and it went straight into the business a/c and was shown as income.
Same here, it was the business that needed it, so that's where it went, I took 3 but didn't feel confident taking any more as everything had picked up by then
 

Pan mixer

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Near Colchester
I didn't take any, having had a dreadful year this year with poor pig prices, low cereal yields and plenty of rotting hay I am wondering if next years fertiliser might warrant a punt at a loan?
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
the theory behind the bb scheme, was to get money circulating, apparently every £1 goes around 7 times, and even if nothing got recovered, it was successful, can see some logic, and we are, as a country, recovering much faster than many/all other western countries.
Personally, l think the best thing the guv could do, is write the lot off, alas, they wont.
With inflation creeping up, the value of money, is decreasing, which is effectively lowering the amount paid back, by both us, and the guv.
The guv has taken a battering all through the continuing covid pandemic, everything they do, seems to upset a proportion of press and population. It was/is a new disease, that has killed at least 5 million people, probably double that. And while the guv's advisors were slow at the beginning, they have made up for that, with industry, backing, vaccination, furlough etc, all from an unexpected, and completely new, disease, with no set action plan. Perhaps the fact that a lot of europe is being battered by a 4th wave, forced vaccination etc, should be appreciated more.
 

Campbell

Member
Location
Herefordshire
Accountant said it was a very good offer, but not to take up any of the reduced payment options they might offer, as this raises a flag, pay it off as per the std arrangements.
 

Werzle

Member
Location
Midlands
Why? Pigs are notoriously cyclic, unfortunately he can't apply for a BB loan currently but hopefully he will be able to borrow some cheap money to tide him over. I really feel for the pig and poultry sector at the moment it must be really hard for them.
I feel for him but borrowing money and/or more money when you are already not doing so well and with no real idea of when you might start doing better is madness and only puts you under more pressure imo.
 

Werzle

Member
Location
Midlands
Why so? It’s just another source of lending, and a very cheap one at that.

The first thing I did with mine was pay down a couple if finance agreements, effectively moving those debts from 7% to 2.5% interest. It’s just another business tool.
Yes and wisely so but read the posters question i answered. He isnt in your situation, you didnt pay those finance agreements off because you couldnt pay them, you paid them off because you found a cheaper way of paying. I would always advise against borrowing money when already struggling unless you have a cast iron plan of how you can pay it back.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I guess the worrying thing is that it's not the government's money, but the banks money. Its just underwritten by the government. Another bank baleout looming?
I think they will flip the script and all blame the banks when the economies tank in 10-12 months - because none of this new money is tied to anything like gold or toenail clippings even

it's a nice way of keeping things looking good as the ship goes down

devils advocate - if you were about to nationalise/confiscate the land in a country,, would it be a cheap investment to get every Tom, Dick and Huw to get soil tests done in practically every field in said country, and have it all on a big database somewhere central?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
devils advocate - if you were about to nationalise/confiscate the land in a country,, would it be a cheap investment to get every Tom, Dick and Huw to get soil tests done in practically every field in said country, and have it all on a big database somewhere central?

It’s a good job there’s two of us onto ‘em.👍

1638611926378.jpeg
 

Ashtree

Member
Seemingly a wage subsidy for employers in ROI administered by the Revenue Service, attracted a small number of “creative applications”, which were approved and the principles enjoyed a largesse of the state, for over €6m.
Revenue of course caught up with them, but instead of demanding payment as they would in the normal course in a tax debt, they classified this as theft/fraud. Didn’t bother to demand repayment, but called in the Gardai, to investigate criminality. Few worried paragons of virtue out there now, waiting for a knock on the door.😏
 

jendan

Member
Why so? It’s just another source of lending, and a very cheap one at that.

The first thing I did with mine was pay down a couple if finance agreements, effectively moving those debts from 7% to 2.5% interest. It’s just another business tool.
Were the finance agreements not already loaded with the total interest built in?
 

jendan

Member
We got one just to increase our stock of materials, and it really did us well as timber prices jumped we could still afford to buy it by the wagon load.
Paying it back now and Yorkshire bank have it set up with my accounts on internet banking so I can pay bits off when we can
All in all for us it was nothing but a benefit
If you are short of capital you make poor business decisions to ease cash flow, more capital gives you more opportunities to generate more cash
Yout last sentence wants framing and sticking on every office wall!
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
It’s a good job there’s two of us onto ‘em.👍

View attachment 1001382
I don't think anyone is really onto it.

Frame most "discussions" in the context of an economic collapse and it begins to make sense.
There is no "going back".
They aren't trying to stimulate and save the economy, the tactic is to depress it but keep it going long enough to bring in a new system, probably cashless as @Cowabunga has been trying to tell everyone for the past 18 months or so.

My theory is that most of your current banks will be the fall-guys for the pandemic plan that clearly doesn't work in practice, and you'll both be paid a living wage and cleared from the land again

Love to be wrong 🙂 but they have a cute way of showing how much they care for farmers
 

Pan mixer

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Near Colchester
Yes and wisely so but read the posters question i answered. He isnt in your situation, you didnt pay those finance agreements off because you couldnt pay them, you paid them off because you found a cheaper way of paying. I would always advise against borrowing money when already struggling unless you have a cast iron plan of how you can pay it back.
I think that in my situation the idea of borrowing a bit to buy some fertiliser for the 400 or so acres that will need some is as good a pay back as I can think of.

Just because the pigs haven't been doing so well doesn't mean that I should deny the rest of the farm (arable, beef cattle, sheep and so on) some fertiliser. I would be fine if the fertiliser hadn't got so stupidly expensive and I didn't buy any earlier on because I didn't have the cash flow at the time
 

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Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

court-640x360.jpg
A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
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