Bps and Buying Property

[Ukjay]

Look at it another way dose the land your buying have livestock on them ??
So do you think your entitled to those also??
It’s a asset to the farm that has a value so purchase or farm without them

Seriously

Some of you amaze me, can't see the irony in what you are advocating as good practice, try and use random analogies as defense and sarcasm and try to belittle, and on the next breath, stick each other in the back as soon as you can. Wtf

Tell you what ignore the question as obviously things are too indoctrinated to see the actual point without twisting things.
I'll plod on regardless..

 

[d williams]

Seriously

Some of you amaze me, can't see the irony in what you are advocating as good practice, try and use random analogies as defense and sarcasm and try to belittle, and on the next breath, stick each other in the back as soon as you can. Wtf

Tell you what ignore the question as obviously things are too indoctrinated to see the actual point without twisting things.
I'll plod on regardless..

No problem will ignore question
Only trying to point out they are separate to the land and have a value separate to the land same as others have tried to explain to you ?

 

[Goweresque]

I want nothing for nothing - unlike many who run a business on free money, so I would say you're barking very much up the wrong tree there.

So why do you want the entitlements at all then, if you don't want to claim the 'free money' that farm subsidies are? And if you don't want nothing for nothing, why do you want the seller to include an asset in the sale that has an open market value for free? If he had a tractor parked in the barn would you expect him to throw that in for free as well? After all you're buying the farm, the tractor works on the farm, why shouldn't you have it for free too?

You seem to be incapable of understanding that the entitlement to subsidy is in no way connected to any piece of land. Its free to be used on any farm in the country, just the like the tractor is. You just up sticks and take it with you. Entitlements are as much a mobile asset of a farming business as machinery and livestock are. They are not some sort of 'fixtures and fittings' that naturally go with a specific bit of land, such as gates or fences, they are entirely separate, and as such if you want them you'll have to buy them, like any other business asset.

Of note, I do not think 16k per acre to include the entitlements is wanting anything for nothing, as we are not talking top quality land here... Or are you suggesting that is incorrect?

Whether £16k/acre is a stiff price or not depends entirely on the amount of land you're buying, and where it is. If its 1000 acres then yes, thats pretty stiff. If it was 100 then it's still pretty steep, but also might not be if it was in a very favourable location. If its 20 or 30 acres then no, £16k isn't out of the way, especially if its anywhere near urban areas then i'd say its about right. If its 5 or 10 acres then its probably cheap.

 

[Ukjay]

So why do you want the entitlements at all then, if you don't want to claim the 'free money' that farm subsidies are? And if you don't want nothing for nothing, why do you want the seller to include an asset in the sale that has an open market value for free? If he had a tractor parked in the barn would you expect him to throw that in for free as well? After all you're buying the farm, the tractor works on the farm, why shouldn't you have it for free too?

You seem to be incapable of understanding that the entitlement to subsidy is in no way connected to any piece of land. Its free to be used on any farm in the country, just the like the tractor is. You just up sticks and take it with you. Entitlements are as much a mobile asset of a farming business as machinery and livestock are. They are not some sort of 'fixtures and fittings' that naturally go with a specific bit of land, such as gates or fences, they are entirely separate, and as such if you want them you'll have to buy them, like any other business asset.



Whether £16k/acre is a stiff price or not depends entirely on the amount of land you're buying, and where it is. If its 1000 acres then yes, thats pretty stiff. If it was 100 then it's still pretty steep, but also might not be if it was in a very favourable location. If its 20 or 30 acres then no, £16k isn't out of the way, especially if its anywhere near urban areas then i'd say its about right. If its 5 or 10 acres then its probably cheap.

Oh I am very much capable and even morso, able to understand quite clearly what is happening, and it is the irony in this and some of the views I have received has helped me see things differently towards certain other situations now.

I never actually said I would or would not claim, only that I want no entitlements for free, but you twist it.

Behind the BPS, were further investigations about how the money could be utilised in a way that could be of benefit to others also via our land as we did previously without payment on a smaller scale, but still we retain the land entitlements for the property, but yours and some others views, well - says it all really.

 

[Goweresque]

I never actually said I would or would not claim, only that I want no entitlements for free, but you twist it.

So asking the seller to throw in the entitlements for the price agreed for the land isn't asking for them for nothing then?

 

[Ukjay]

So asking the seller to throw in the entitlements for the price agreed for the land isn't asking for them for nothing then?

No, as it would be in the respectful price paid for the property with circa Xk per acre for the land as I keep saying but seem to forget...

Obviously many visibly condone it as they are no doubt making tidy sums of money from each other when doing it (good for them), but then you read so many threads where individuals struggle with the costs going up so high, basically can't afford to farm as no one allegedly appreciates farming in the UK anymore - but ask why should they when you can extort each other for such tidy sums?
That is the irony in all of this, your own industry suffers at some other point down the line..

The sad part in all this for me however, is some cannot afford it, and meet this head on daily - so I do kind of feel sorry for them in the current situation.

I on the other hand will not pay the ransom, because they are only worth what someone is prepared to pay, and the current prices are ludicrous - especially as there is a large cloud hanging over us currently.

YMMV

 

[Goweresque]

No, as it would be in the respectful price paid for the property with circa Xk per acre for the land as I keep saying but seem to forget...

Obviously many visibly condone it as they are no doubt making tidy sums of money from each other when doing it (good for them), but then you read so many threads where individuals struggle with the costs going up so high, basically can't afford to farm as no one allegedly appreciates farming in the UK anymore - but ask why should they when you can extort each other for such tidy sums?
That is the irony in all of this, your own industry suffers at some other point down the line..

The sad part in all this for me however, is some cannot afford it, and meet this head on daily - so I do kind of feel sorry for them in the current situation.

I on the other hand will not pay the ransom, because they are only worth what someone is prepared to pay, and the current prices are ludicrous - especially as there is a large cloud hanging over us currently.

YMMV

I think your trouble is you forgot to ask if the entitlements were included in the sale and/or to say when making an offer that it was on the basis of having the entitlements as well. And now you've discovered your mistake are trying to blame everyone else, including the seller and society at large for being so greedy, rather than yourself for messing up.

And as for bidding things up, what do you think the person who could afford to bid £15k/acre on this property feels like? Or even £10k/acre, which is more the headline figure for farmland? They might be very p*ssed off that someone with more money has outbid them. Do they get to call you names too?

There's always an underbidder and there's always someone with more money than you who can outbid you if they feel like it. Thats the nature of buying and selling.

 

[Ukjay]

I think your trouble is you forgot to ask if the entitlements were included in the sale and/or to say when making an offer that it was on the basis of having the entitlements as well. And now you've discovered your mistake are trying to blame everyone else, including the seller and society at large for being so greedy, rather than yourself for messing up.

And as for bidding things up, what do you think the person who could afford to bid £15k/acre on this property feels like? Or even £10k/acre, which is more the headline figure for farmland? They might be very p*ssed off that someone with more money has outbid them. Do they get to call you names too?

There's always an underbidder and there's always someone with more money than you who can outbid you if they feel like it. Thats the nature of buying and selling.

?

As is the common theme on here, you forgot to read what is written then jumped both feet in to an incorrect assumption.
You obviously did not read post 1 correctly and the start of 8.....

I have not put any offer in and found out the hard way, I asked what it meant and once found out took those properties off the list, as I'm not going to feather anyone's cap beyond what is reasonable.
Also, I'm not alone in thinking this whole set up is a sham, and is adding to the farming industry burden.

Happy days.

 

[Tubbylew]

Pretty sure panorama did a program on this years ago, people in scotland making a fair packet renting naked acres and buying entitlements, getting paid sfp as it was then without having ever set foot out of suburbia, you can bet that if some average joes made a bit, the people in the know made a fortune. Utterly rotten system.