BPS reduction chart

Explorer

Member
Interesting reading.
In the higher £150k bracket, where we will be for payments 2021, 22 & 23?
Is there a percent format being followed on an annual basis does anybody know?
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
So bps soon to be 0 what’s that going to do for the average farm, are they basically finished now.

Adapt and overcome seems to be the Mantra of some.

Part time farming, with jobs off-farm maybe? I remember chatting with a German farmer back in the late 80s near Stuttgart where I was staying with a friend. He farmed 40-50ha (I think) with some cattle, sugarbeet and a bit of arable for the cereals to feed the stock.... and worked in a car parts factory in the day.
 

Explorer

Member
Adapt and overcome seems to be the Mantra of some.

Part time farming, with jobs off-farm maybe? I remember chatting with a German farmer back in the late 80s near Stuttgart where I was staying with a friend. He farmed 40-50ha (I think) with some cattle, sugarbeet and a bit of arable for the cereals to feed the stock.... and worked in a car parts factory in the day.

The 80’s have gone and I would like to think we’ve got a little bit more sensible since then.
I for one wouldn’t spend a week in a car factory to then turn round and produce cheap food at cost for the world on weekends - got to be abit of an idiot to do so.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
The 80’s have gone and I would like to think we’ve got a little bit more sensible since then.
I for one wouldn’t spend a week in a car factory to then turn round and produce cheap food at cost for the world on weekends - got to be abit of an idiot to do so.

Well, I would not expect cropping to continue in such circumstances...

Lots of Stewardship/ELMS/ Enviro Schemes and enjoy the land without the grief? Parkeeping some call it. My take is that it will allow land to be kept in great order, build fertility and wait for teh day when we need food again from the UK.
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
I think that individual farmers need to be making their moves now, based on your overview which I believe is spot on.

This is true. Sadly there is much uncertainty and a lack of a clear direction which is encouraging farmers to not do this.

If the country wish for food - pay for it properly.
If the country wish to have land as parks - pay for it properly.

Currently, neither system appears to exist.

Farmers will happily respond if they know which side their bread is buttered. Currently the bread is an unknown.......let alone the butter!
 

B'o'B

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Rutland
This is true. Sadly there is much uncertainty and a lack of a clear direction which is encouraging farmers to not do this.

If the country wish for food - pay for it properly.
If the country wish to have land as parks - pay for it properly.

Currently, neither system appears to exist.

Farmers will happily respond if they know which side their bread is buttered. Currently the bread is an unknown.......let alone the butter!
I would say reading between the lines the direction of travel is reasonably clear (even if the details aren’t)...... It’s just not the one we are used to, or want, so there is a lot of trying not to see it and hoping something changes in the meantime.

Whatever we think, it appears to me that the people in power think food is cheap and can be sourced from anywhere. I also believe they are currently actively working towards a No-deal Brexit come what may. The combination of which will be extremely difficult to adapt business to, never mind the COVID-19 wildcard on top.
I’m planning on the next 10years being quite a struggle business wise.
 

farmerm

Member
Location
Shropshire
I think that by the time ELMS kicks in it will be too late. I can't see too many farmers being motivated by limited money and extra cost when their businesses are in a worse position than today.
Be under no illusions, ELMS will be no replacement to BPS income, it will do little more than cover costs and potential income forgone for the options taken.

We are all going to have to make some changes to adapt to production without BPS payments, needing a second job is going to become the norm for many!
 

Farma Parma

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Northumberlandia
This is true. Sadly there is much uncertainty and a lack of a clear direction which is encouraging farmers to not do this.

If the country wish for food - pay for it properly.
If the country wish to have land as parks - pay for it properly.

Currently, neither system appears to exist.

Farmers will happily respond if they know which side their bread is buttered. Currently the bread is an unknown.......let alone the butter!
You have hit the nail right in the middle with that statement.
They & us have too pay for everything else which never gets any cheaper...
why should we as food producers be any diff ??
 

GeorgeK

Member
Location
Leicestershire
Farms that are unprofitable without BPS and that are unwilling to get involved with ELMS won't have much choice but to let out their land (BPS reductions will have to come off rent). Easy enough with arable as apparently the big boys will keep growing and don't need subs. Permanent pasture/marginal ground may not attract much if any rent in some areas. Convert the sheds to storage/units/offices etc. The farmer potters about keeping things tidy.
That's the best realistically achievable outcome I can see for the average small farm that relies on BPS
 

Farma Parma

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Northumberlandia
Farms that are unprofitable without BPS and that are unwilling to get involved with ELMS won't have much choice but to let out their land (BPS reductions will have to come off rent). Easy enough with arable as apparently the big boys will keep growing and don't need subs. Permanent pasture/marginal ground may not attract much if any rent in some areas. Convert the sheds to storage/units/offices etc. The farmer potters about keeping things tidy.
That's the best realistically achievable outcome I can see for the average small farm that relies on BPS
Cant wait too see the day the LL is paying us to Farm there Land then... if thats the case... Yeessshhh
us AHA lads thats on Rent less than BPS iam referring too.
I see Trouble ahead... & lots of fighting. it wont go well none of this.
 

Farma Parma

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Northumberlandia
Farms that are unprofitable without BPS and that are unwilling to get involved with ELMS won't have much choice but to let out their land (BPS reductions will have to come off rent). Easy enough with arable as apparently the big boys will keep growing and don't need subs. Permanent pasture/marginal ground may not attract much if any rent in some areas. Convert the sheds to storage/units/offices etc. The farmer potters about keeping things tidy.
That's the best realistically achievable outcome I can see for the average small farm that relies on BPS
Its not all the LL that should be taking this hit but poss because the BPS is all too do with the earning cap of the holding there the 1st in the firing line iam afraid
all the Input boys starting with the Machinery Men then the Agchem/Fert boys all gonna feel the draft of this huge change to UK farming
Most of them clueless atm
Its quite simple for us to somehow survive inputs right across the board have to be cut
How & why is a minefield tho :confused:
 

GeorgeK

Member
Location
Leicestershire
Its not all the LL that should be taking this hit but poss because the BPS is all too do with the earning cap of the holding there the 1st in the firing line iam afraid
all the Input boys starting with the Machinery Men then the Agchem/Fert boys all gonna feel the draft of this huge change to UK farming
Most of them clueless atm
Its quite simple for us to somehow survive inputs right across the board have to be cut
How & why is a minefield tho :confused:
Anyone who makes no changes and carries on business as usual (far too many I suspect) is going to run out of money fairly quickly
 

Case290

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Worcestershire
I can see no pk or soil fertility will be justifiable at all. And we all know where that ends. Very poor land. Probably the first thing to happen but this won’t under line the fact. Business overheads will need to be £250 ha less at least. Not sure any small or medium size farm will be able to do that. Some Rents are that already before any other costs.
 

midlandslad

Member
Location
Midlands
There will be serious pressure on rents and big resistance. Definitely time to be a tenants agent going forward though. Still plenty of farms laden up with debt in the push for economies of scale though.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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