Breeding for stature.

[King Rollo]

Probably a silly question, but I can't see it straight in my muddled mind.
If I continually select bulls with a negative score for stature, will I get progressively smaller cows with each generation or will I get consistently sized small cows through the generations??

 

[Mr Big]

Zero is breed average. If you continually use bulls which breed minus half a point in stature then you will have cows which are half a point smaller than average (of breed) in stature.

 

[Llmmm]

Probably a silly question, but I can't see it straight in my muddled mind.
If I continually select bulls with a negative score for stature, will I get progressively smaller cows with each generation or will I get consistently sized small cows through the generations??

Stature is a tricky trait most people want smaller cows but with this the udder goes nearer the ground so small stature cows must have deep udders

 

[epfarms]

Stature is a tricky trait most people want smaller cows but with this the udder goes nearer the ground so small stature cows must have deep udders

This isn’t necessarily true. It’s possible to get a small statured bull, without a deep body and with high/tight udder traits. Off the top of my head, Arrowhead is an example of this to a degree.
To answer your initial question, if you keep breeding animals to a -number stature bull, eventually size will plateau. If your cows are, for example, tiny already and you breed to only a -0.5ish bull, the progeny will be taller than their fans most likely.
The other thing to consider is as a rule the breed average height has increased in recent years, so if you keep breeding to 0 stature bulls (say for the next 10 years) and this pattern continues, your progeny stature will in fact most likely increase!

 

[Llmmm]

This isn’t necessarily true. It’s possible to get a small statured bull, without a deep body and with high/tight udder traits. Off the top of my head, Arrowhead is an example of this to a degree.
To answer your initial question, if you keep breeding animals to a -number stature bull, eventually size will plateau. If your cows are, for example, tiny already and you breed to only a -0.5ish bull, the progeny will be taller than their fans most likely.
The other thing to consider is as a rule the breed average height has increased in recent years, so if you keep breeding to 0 stature bulls (say for the next 10 years) and this pattern continues, your progeny stature will in fact most likely increase!

i
I didnt say it wasnt possible to get a negative stature bull with a deep udder the stature negative im talking about is big negative stature scores that will make a diffetence straight away these bulls are rare and id be concerned with there udders.

 

[bigw]

I stand to be corrected but I recall being told at an AHDB genetics meeting a few years ago that the Holstein base was reset and -1 for stature is actually average.

 

[Llmmm]

I stand to be corrected but I recall being told at an AHDB genetics meeting a few years ago that the Holstein base was reset and -1 for stature is actually average.

Could anyone recommend a bull -3 stature with strength and deep udders .

 

[Homesy]

The linear for stature is a fixed measurement. (see guide below) so 0 is 148cm, +3 is 160cm -3 is 136cm from the top of the spine between the hips to the ground. So in theory if you keep breeding to bulls at -3 eventually your herd should average 136cm tall. There will obviously be a bit of variation in that but they shouldn't average much less. No account is taken of the average height of cows in the national herd.

http://www.holstein-uk.org/media/legacyhw/Breeding%20for%20HW/Breeding-Linear-Assessment.pdf

 

[buffalo_soldier]

Progressively smaller if you pick the same stature value every year till it eventually plateaus.

Can keep it even by varying the negative trait depending on year bred down to desired stature.

 

[organicguy]

Could anyone recommend a bull -3 stature with strength and deep udders .

You won,t want deep udders on short cows, (or is udder depth under the tail?)
I'd use a Friesian

 

[Rossymons]

Stature is a very heritable trait so decent gains can be made relatively quickly.

 

[More to life]

Holstein cows get progressively bigger with every generation so if you select 0 they will still get bigger. To maintain size -1 is the correct score or at least that’s how I see it.

 

[organicguy]

Everyone thinks that the Holstein is wonderfully efficient increasing yield with every generation, all that has happened is they get bigger and eat more grain.
My guess is the little jersey produces the most from the least.
At last they are starting to test for food conversion which should help.

 

[Llmmm]

Everyone thinks that the Holstein is wonderfully efficient increasing yield with every generation, all that has happened is they get bigger and eat more grain.
My guess is the little jersey produces the most from the least.
At last they are starting to test for food conversion which should help.

The jersey is a very underated animal it has high feed efficency and the best feet and legs of any dairy breed.50 percent of my herd is pure american dainish jersey cross .However for grazing they struggle to maintain body condtion and fertility in america and the high yielding dainish is going the wrong way.another thing to watch in jerseys is udders If i was calving ayr and indoors tmr id have jerseys due to feed conversiom and feet and legs.

 

[jerseycowsman]

The jersey is a very underated animal it has high feed efficency and the best feet and legs of any dairy breed.50 percent of my herd is pure american dainish jersey cross .However for grazing they struggle to maintain body condtion and fertility in america and the high yielding dainish is going the wrong way.another thing to watch in jerseys is udders If i was calving ayr and indoors tmr id have jerseys due to feed conversiom and feet and legs.

Use some Canadian genetics, they’ll rein back in the danish and American brown Holstein tendency to milk themselves to death!

 

[More to life]

Everyone thinks that the Holstein is wonderfully efficient increasing yield with every generation, all that has happened is they get bigger and eat more grain.
My guess is the little jersey produces the most from the least.
At last they are starting to test for food conversion which should help.

Whilst I agree jerseys are great little cows my own Holsteins are getting smaller even tho yield is improving.

 

[som farmer]

Could anyone recommend a bull -3 stature with strength and deep udders .

dexter

 

[som farmer]

that's what pee's me off, genomic bulls, without the vital statistics, the genomic fr are good at doing that. All bulls at stud, should have good milk/fat/protien figures, but, its chest width, stature, udder, we really need to see, how else, are you going to match bulls to cows ?