gone
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- Location
- Carlow Ireland
Leaving the big 3 to decide the direction of the EU is a very big mistake for the UK's international interests. It was one of the main reasons for joining in the first place.
Brexit a massive geopolitical misstep
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wanton dwarf
Member
You have got to be totally deluded to even think the UK was even interested, never mind able.
Do you seriously think HMG is capable to doing ANYTHING any where near right ?
God knows why you are still fixated with Brexit when the obvious problem is obvious.
Get real.
gone
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- Location
- Carlow Ireland
It is sad that you believe the UK Government is no longer interested in Geopolitics of Europe and even sadder that you believe they are no longer able to do anything about it.
But you are closer to it.
Britain and Ireland are linked for at least the last 800 years, Brexit has changed NI and Ireland in general, so yes most people in Ireland are interested in the mess that is Brexit and will remain so.
Can you expand on "the obvious problem is obvious"?
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Ye fought two world wars and many other wars going back hundreds of years to maintain disorder or influence on mainland Europe. Now losing geopolitical influence is a good thing?
betweenthelines
Member
- Location
- southwest
Bit late to worry about it now!
Might as well complain about all those Normans coming over, killing out King and taking all our land.
Might as well complain about all those Normans coming over, killing out King and taking all our land.
- Location
- People's Republic of South Yorkshire
What influence do you think the uk could have made if it stayed in?
I'm still bemused by the Irish Government sending a letter of condolence to the German People regarding the death of your Fuhrer - Adolph Hitler.
Not sure what that has to do with the geopolitical issue but thanks for the reminder. Dev isn't exactly looked upon fondly by many for myriad reasons including that bizarre act.
Do you reckon this blatant disregard for the influence that was paid for in blood is a good thing? Does it honour their sacrifice?
Plenty of my country men fought for Britain and of course we were a part of Britain for over a century including during WW1 where many, many boys died
Danllan
Member
- Location
- Sir Gar / Carms
The UK joined the EEC / EU primarily because of the damage socialism had done to our economy, and in fair part because of the dogma shared across the main political parties by post-war liberals; and remained in due to dishonesty. The ROI joined for two main and rather ironic reasons; firstly because the UK did, and secondly to try and place itself less under the sway of the UK. These are all plain political facts, which may not be liked, but will remain so nonetheless.
Anyone in the ROI or elsewhere who thinks that Brexit will sway Unionists toward a 'united Ireland' are in fantasy-land, and clearly don't really understand what 'Unionism' - in its basic sense - really is. Now, that isn't a criticism in a pejorative sense, I've family and friends in NI and will flatter myself that I'm not too thick, but it still took me a fair while to truly grasp the sense and deeper meaning of Unionism over there.
As for the UK and its influence, I guess the best way to describe it is as much more than many might think, or like, and less than some others may hope. Within the EU its absence is already pretty clear and will become even more stark over the coming year - especially if Macron wins his election, as seems probable. Expect more grand projects, less individual and national autonomy, less accountability and less ability for smaller countries to defend their interests - most particularly when in disagreement with France and Germany.
Elsewhere, we still have a lot of influence in some regions, less in others; both likely to consolidate over the coming decades, anyone expecting immediate change either way is a bloody fool. My best guess is that we really will not seek anything but essential involvement over in Europe, with NATO being of more relevance to us than the EU, more so if the EU finally takes on an open military role.
On that subject, I'll be interested to see how 'non-aligned' and 'neutral' EU member states fit into a pan-EU defence system, as contributors, parasites or with derogations to sidestep it altogether. But what if it becomes EU law that all members must agree to defend one another...? Fascinating...
Anyone in the ROI or elsewhere who thinks that Brexit will sway Unionists toward a 'united Ireland' are in fantasy-land, and clearly don't really understand what 'Unionism' - in its basic sense - really is. Now, that isn't a criticism in a pejorative sense, I've family and friends in NI and will flatter myself that I'm not too thick, but it still took me a fair while to truly grasp the sense and deeper meaning of Unionism over there.
As for the UK and its influence, I guess the best way to describe it is as much more than many might think, or like, and less than some others may hope. Within the EU its absence is already pretty clear and will become even more stark over the coming year - especially if Macron wins his election, as seems probable. Expect more grand projects, less individual and national autonomy, less accountability and less ability for smaller countries to defend their interests - most particularly when in disagreement with France and Germany.
Elsewhere, we still have a lot of influence in some regions, less in others; both likely to consolidate over the coming decades, anyone expecting immediate change either way is a bloody fool. My best guess is that we really will not seek anything but essential involvement over in Europe, with NATO being of more relevance to us than the EU, more so if the EU finally takes on an open military role.
On that subject, I'll be interested to see how 'non-aligned' and 'neutral' EU member states fit into a pan-EU defence system, as contributors, parasites or with derogations to sidestep it altogether. But what if it becomes EU law that all members must agree to defend one another...? Fascinating...
The tragedy is that the Irish soldiers who fought for the Allies in WW2 were punished severely by the Irish Government. Most were denied work and many had their children taken away.
I'd love to read up about this, have you any source material?
My anecdotal thought is that this is a complete fabrication. Soldiers who fought for the Queen were looked down upon certainly but what you mentioned is inaccurate.
I noticed you haven't replied to any of my other questions, what is your opinion on those? Was the blood spilled for nothing? I think it might well have been
This is a fantasy, no one has ever aimed to sway unionists. It's always been a numbers game as you should well know.
The influence question is surely a huge own goal, it's literally been the geopolitical stance of the UK for centuries to not allow a strong France or Germany control Europe which they certainly will
- Location
- Limousin/Charentes toad land
Scraggy animals seem to be making €200 here. Madness. Surely beef must be far better value... as well as far superior eating
gone
Member
- Location
- Carlow Ireland
Brexit as you say will not/has not swayed any Unionist, what it is doing is forcing those on the fence to think about their positions. There would have been a good few small "n" nationalists that would vote for the SDLP but would have voted against leaving the UK, but now would vote for a United Ireland. It seems there are some centrist small "u" Unionists seem to be moving to Alliance.
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Danllan
Member
- Location
- Sir Gar / Carms
Yep, it's numbers, which doesn't say much for the arguments now does it...?
As for what you've written on influence, you're way behind the times! That was when Europe was all that really mattered, not the case any more, in fact far from it.
But it is very interesting that you write of Franco-German domination - you may not believe it but... there are some on here who believe (or pretend to believe) that no such thing is possible in the EU and that smaller countries e.g. the ROI can work together to overcome such a thing.
Well, that's not our indaba anymore; best of luck to them, but let's not take their hypocrisy and dishonesty as anything more than it clearly is.
I can't comment advisedly on sentiments regarding them, it all being secondhand; but I will be astonished if a competent Unionist party wouldn't sweep the board - of coarse, that requires there to be a competent Unionist party...
No need whatsoever to sway unionists. They’re doing plenty swaying all by themselves. Initially out of the UK, through their blind myopic stance on Brexit, and their foolish belief that they are warmly held and honoured as an integral part of the UK, by the English establishment. In truth they are a damn nuisance, who by happy coincidence once every so many electoral cycles, make a very convenient prop for Tory government with a weak or no parliamentary majority.
Secondly of course there is the small matter of demographics, which is inexorably placing them in the minority in NI. The border poll will come sooner or later, and the rest will be history.
Secondly of course there is the small matter of demographics, which is inexorably placing them in the minority in NI. The border poll will come sooner or later, and the rest will be history.
gone
Member
- Location
- Carlow Ireland
My Grandmother's family was a British Army/RIC family, my father seemed to regret not joining up, but was running the farm and supporting his younger brothers through education, plenty of his friends fought in the British Army. While most army families were targeted during the War of Independence, it was not an issue after WW11, there were a lot of jobs in Ireland you needed to be a member of FF in the South or a member of a Lodge in the North, but thankfully the EU sorted both.
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On the numbers I mean reproductive rate, not sure if we are getting wires crossed there.Yep, it's numbers, which doesn't say much for the arguments now does it...?
As for what you've written on influence, you're way behind the times! That was when Europe was all that really mattered, not the case any more, in fact far from it.
But it is very interesting that you write of Franco-German domination - you may not believe it but... there are some on here who believe (or pretend to believe) that no such thing is possible in the EU and that smaller countries e.g. the ROI can work together to overcome such a thing.
Well, that's not our indaba anymore; best of luck to them, but let's not take their hypocrisy and dishonesty as anything more than it clearly is.
I can't comment advisedly on sentiments regarding them, it all being secondhand; but I will be astonished if a competent Unionist party wouldn't sweep the board - of coarse, that requires there to be a competent Unionist party...
I mean it was a big three before the UK left, don't forget that. It's only natural to assume they will consolidate their sway. There will be an industrial compensation for fine engineering and sciences that will directly compete with the UK. I work in industry and we have dropped long-standing UK suppliers because it's just easier to buy from Europe now. No real difference in cost or time for nearly everything. There is unprecedented expansion in the multinationals. The world has certainly changed but I think you need to be part of the super economies to compete.
We are a dot on the edge of Europe, I think we have far more say on matters in the EU than we would or possibly should otherwise. We also have an incredibly strong business link to the USA and a lot of that is contingent on EU membership.
I doubt very many young people will vote for hardline Unionists ever again, there are too many headstrong types that just haven't moved with the times