Brexit has been cancelled

Hi, I fear this post will reap opprobrium but I must reply to your assertion that the last General Election was in effect another referendum.

In our first past the post system the majority of voters in England really were only going to vote Labour or Conservative, both of whom stated they would honour the referendum result, all other votes were effectively wasted votes as at the day of the election the other parties had no overall chance of forming a government unless fortunate enough to end up as the 'casting vote party' which amusingly the DUP found themselves.

So given this then it is hardly surprising 85% of people voted for 'Leave' in the General Election as the two major parties in their manifestos both supported the referendum result.

So my observation is that for the Leave side to attempt to use the General Election result as a mandate for Brexit is somewhat disingenuous.

I thought before the referendum and still consider that over time - 10 / 20 years it will probably not matter that much whether UK is in or out of EU insofar as may things are concerned but there will be some upheaval getting to that stage. And it maybe in 20 years time we shall be able to look back and see with more clarity if leaving was the correct thing to do.

My further observation is that the politicians supporting both sides were so obviously wrong / pessimistic in their forecasts - so no WW3 or end of the world on one side, nor a simple exiting on the other side, that really should I have faith in any of them now.

Hey ho, long as I have my health.


I agree with most of what you have posted, however your recollection of what happened is not totally correct.

Labour, Liberal Democrats & Greens formed an alliance specifically to overturn brexit
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...t-green-party-snp_uk_58f73171e4b0de5bac422e0b

How to vote tactically in the general election today
http://uk.businessinsider.com/tacti...-2017-general-election-by-constituency-2017-4

Elections watchdog wants double voting rules tightened

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40630842

I saw the organisation on a lot of websites even detailing specific MPs with weak constituences they targetted - Lists of names. Seeking agreement between candidates to sqew voters from many candidates to one & in some places it worked.

Liberal Democrats were the only party to put forward an Anti Brexit agenda. IF Brexit was such an important issue then it was quite easy to show a protest vote, even a slight increase would have been enough to make headlines.

In certain areas the protest vote against Brexit for Liberal Democrats was significant, especially down Bristol & near London


However, the result was the complete opposite with Liberal Democrats getting the worst performance & Nick Clegg losing his seat.

I agree in part the general election was NOT fought on Brexit issues and the electorate took Brexit to be done & dusted ... looking back this has just been proven to be a ploy by Labour & Conservatives to move the issue into Parliament where a comfy dissemination & destruction exercise can be performed ... but I guess this is just an opinion on my part and not yet history
 

The Ruminant

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Hertfordshire
And it is subsequently shown that the 37.5% all have differing reasons for getting off at station Y. :whistle:
Yes, some were planning to walk from there to the cliff edge 23 miles away to break rocks for the foreseeable future. Others were hoping to catch a taxi back to a small hill overlooking station X where they will smile and wave and pass goods to and fro between themselves and station X. Others are intending to head off in directions unknown - a magical mystery tour, to end up who knows where....
 
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rob1

Member
Location
wiltshire
Imagine a train with 200 people on board. It’s a one-off journey from station X to station Y further down the track. It will arrive, anyone who wants to get off can do so and then it will return to where it started its journey from.

Now, as it pulls into station Y the conductor says that all those who wish to disembark must do so now whilst all those that wish to stay on the train should raise their right hand.

75 people get off the train while 69 raise their arm. 56 of the passengers neither get off the train nor raise their arm. Consequently, when the train gets back to it’s starting point, station X, there are 125 people disembark there.

What percentage of passengers chose to get off the train at station Y?
Perhaps the 56 that didnt do anything were either dead,deaf, asleep,had no arms to raise or didnt speak the language spoken, Every person in the country who was eligble to vote could have registered and then put X in the box those that didnt did so for numerous reasons, the result, as in any vote is determined by those who get off their arse and vote,only bad losers blame the ref/ pitch or the weather.
I voted leave because I didnt want to be part of the US of E and despite many denying it and the desire for an eu army we have only today the ex president of the eu parliament saying he wants exactly that, at least he is honest unlike so many other eu leaders
 

Still Farming

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South Wales UK
Perhaps the 56 that didnt do anything were either dead,deaf, asleep,had no arms to raise or didnt speak the language spoken, Every person in the country who was eligble to vote could have registered and then put X in the box those that didnt did so for numerous reasons, the result, as in any vote is determined by those who get off their arse and vote,only bad losers blame the ref/ pitch or the weather.
I voted leave because I didnt want to be part of the US of E and despite many denying it and the desire for an eu army we have only today the ex president of the eu parliament saying he wants exactly that, at least he is honest unlike so many other eu leaders
In Glastonbury looking after themselves ?
TM got till Sunday to sort something to go on table !
 

Walterp

Member
Location
Pembrokeshire
They never got asked if they ever wanted to get on a train to a federal Europe

We all thought the EEC was a trading area ... not a vehicle to getting a Super State for a few people in Brussels

No thanks I don't want the "train", consider it derailed.
This political myth keeps coming up, again and again.

It isn't what happened at the time, you know.

Let's start at the beginning - where you alive in 1973, for starters?
 
This political myth keeps coming up, again and again.

It isn't what happened at the time, you know.

Let's start at the beginning - where you alive in 1973, for starters?


Does it matter ?

Lie-bore under Tony B-Liar took the UK wholely into the EU out of the EEC

THAT is what you are scared of
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Hard Brexit is short hand for leaving the single market, the customs union and the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Thereby ending free movement of people. Soft Brexit means retaining single market access to some degree whjch means retaining free movement of people. If I have over simplified it is because Brexiters “don’t do complex”.

Well, those are your definitions and fair enough, for you. I'll be very pleased to read your un-simplified definitions.

This can only have been said by an Englishman - Scotland, Northern Ireland and (more marginally) Wales have different ideas. No one else goes around quoting Churchill, for instance.

Thus Brexit is an English cultural problem. No one knows the answer to it.

But ignoring the Scots, etc has lead, and will lead, to greater problems.

It made a huge impression on me that London, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales have all declared for staying in the Single Market/Customs Union, whilst the desperation to exit same exists predominantly within English shires.

It is a political myth that Wales has 'declared for staying in the Single Market/Customs Union'. Its greatly discredited, divided and largely immoral Labour administration has so declared, but has done so against the will of 52.53% of the Welsh who voted in the Referendum.

It is a remarkable thing how often, when someone agrees with a politician acting against his public's will, that admirable qualities such as 'leadership' or 'statesmanship' are mentioned with regard to him. Yet, when someone disagrees with a politician acting against his public's will, such a politician is often termed a 'dictator' or, maybe, even a 'fascist' - assuming the critic can spell; it is a problem we must live with for now.

Ignoring a democratic majority has lead, and will always lead, to greater problems.
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
They never got asked if they ever wanted to get on a train to a federal Europe

We all thought the EEC was a trading area ... not a vehicle to getting a Super State for a few people in Brussels

No thanks I don't want the "train", consider it derailed.

And which country complained the most about some governments subsidising their industries and there should be more regulation and rules to stop this happening.:banghead:
 
And which country complained the most about some governments subsidising their industries and there should be more regulation and rules to stop this happening.:banghead:


Oh I agree whole heartedly ... but WHY and what did we get instead

and then we got the final truth with £450 Billion spent on propping a bunch of Banks that dont even pay taxes and STILL dont pay taxes ... it's bananas

You know I'm a dicotomy of politics ... like a true Brexiteer I like my cake & eating it :) and rightly so IMHO see I do self criticization as well, I'm all "multifunctional" not to be confused with "multicultural"
 
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Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Oh I agree whole heartedly ... but WHY and what did we get instead

and then we got the final truth with £450 Billion spent on propping a bunch of Banks that dont even pay taxes and STILL dont pay taxes ... it's bananas

You know I'm a dicotomy of politics ... like I true Brexiteer I like my cake & eating it :) and rightly so IMHO see I do self criticization as well, I'm all "multifunctional" not to be confused with "multicultural"

Still tens of billions less than have been spent propping the EU...
 

ski

Member
This can only have been said by an Englishman - Scotland, Northern Ireland and (more marginally) Wales have different ideas. No one else goes around quoting Churchill, for instance.

Thus Brexit is an English cultural problem. No one knows the answer to it.

But ignoring the Scots, etc has lead, and will lead, to greater problems.

It made a huge impression on me that London, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales have all declared for staying in the Single Market/Customs Union, whilst the desperation to exit same exists predominantly within English shires.
I think you have in previous post quoted him to. ( In fact I'm sure of it). I don't think either I have commented on my nationality which may be more complicated than you think or know.

Your reply is not rebuttal but personal slur, try playing the ball not the person.
 
Still tens of billions less than have been spent propping the EU...


Both parties are guilty of destroying UK jobs at the alter of the EU ... I don't blame the EU for destroying UK jobs, what competitor wouldn't but our own government ?

Credit where it is due ... Merkel's ability to create the "EU Climate Change" policy and then use Coal for energy ... and then get Lie-bore to do her dirty work on our energy sector

I don't know which is worse

Mind you from what I have read recently I think it might go a lot deeper but for now I'm gonna keep quiet
 

Ashtree

Member
There is no fudging hard brexit. It is in effect a clear set of ideas. Johnson and Gove played down hard brexit in the referendum campaign. In other words they fudged it. The current situation calls for more instruction from the electorate IMO.
And it is subsequently shown that the 37.5% all have differing reasons for getting off at station Y. :whistle:

Many saw the red bus and got on board a better health service.:rolleyes:
 

Danllan

Member
Location
Sir Gar / Carms
Both parties are guilty of destroying UK jobs at the alter of the EU ... I don't blame the EU for destroying UK jobs, what competitor wouldn't but our own government ?

Credit where it is due ... Merkel's ability to create the "EU Climate Change" policy and then use Coal for energy ... and then get Lie-bore to do her dirty work on our energy sector

I don't know which is worse

Mind you from what I have read recently I think it might go a lot deeper but for now I'm gonna keep quiet
It is a remarkable thing that, as you have written, governments of all parties have seen it as a good thing to subsidise our competitors while undermining our own workforce. I don't blame the EU for this nor for taking advantage of it, any more than I would a fox for killing Mrs Danllan's hens, but I'd nonetheless remove the fox from the equation.
 
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ski

Member
This political myth keeps coming up, again and again.

It isn't what happened at the time, you know.

Let's start at the beginning - where you alive in 1973, for starters?
Playing the man again.....

Never mind the fact your wrong, Heath believed in the vision, but the vision did not become reality.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,292
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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