Brexit matters

[Alison]

Hello,

I am not a farmer, but having spent a bit of time on them, I know it's a tough, demanding job and a necessary one for the welfare of the land. How will Brexit affect you? I suppose none of us are really sure, but I'm keen to find out how being outside the EU is likely to affect key aspects of your working lives, and make comparisons with other staple industries in the UK.

Now that a 'soft' Brexit has been more-or-less ruled out, the two major possibilities are a deal with reasonable tariffs, and also subsidies presumably from Westminster rather than Brussels, vs. no deal and WTO rules all round.

1. Do you have a preference and if it's for a deal, how likely to you think it is likely to happen by 2020?
2. If you are consulted by the government, is there a top priority you would like to see an agreement on?
3. Do you trust Parliament to agree and deliver on match-funding where EU subsidies for your type of farming are lost?
4. Were you pleased to be offered a chance to leave the EU and if so, why?
5. How feasible is it to expand the market for your goods further afield, or is that the problem of the dairy/retailer etc?

If any of these questions are wide of the mark, I apologise. I haven't had a chance to visit any farms since before June last year, and things seem to have moved on a long way since then.

I appreciate that everyone is very busy, so if you've not the time or the inclination to answer, no worries. I should state at this point that I'm not working for the civil service, nor am I a journalist, I'm just genuinely interested in this issue and I can't be sure I'm not getting a misinforming, or very partial view, one way or the other, from the media. Personally I voted to remain, partly because Farage's 'man of the people' act feels very false and partly because I didn't feel I knew enough to take a leap out of something we've belonged to all my lifetime. I still don't, but it feels like farming, as a major British concern, is going to be on the frontline of the future, whether we remain or leave, and however we leave, so your understanding and reckoning is really important.

Thank you for your time in reading, and to anyone who responds, in writing. I'd only ask that you aren't rude, because life's too short!

Alison

 

[its yourself]

1. Yes. No.
2. Yes.
3. Snorts in derision. No.
4. Wasn't an issue for me.
5. I'm moving into hamster breeding. Hoping for the Trump hair contract. Best export opportunity likely available post brexit as we won't get a beneficial deal from anyone now. (This is a joke you pro Trump snowflakes. Yes you.)

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Hi Alison. It's good to think non farming people take an interest.
I fear it is hard to answer your questions without being misleading.
I believe the majority of farmers were in favour of leaving.
I think the majority of farmers expect to be worse off immediately after we leave.
The whole question of subsidy and support is extremely complicated and most farmers only trust the government to make sure it creates a lot of jobs with little benefit to the farmer.
We all have to pay levies to marketing boards and they have done precious little in the past. It is them that we will be relying on to market our goods further afield but quite frankly, they are not good enough at the moment.

 

[Danllan]

You have to remember that we aren't just farmers, like everyone else we are British patriots, Scottish nationalists, Europhiles and Europhobes, etc. etc. and many - maybe most - voted according to heart rather than business interests. Some of us haven't always been farming either, I left a farming family for the Army, the law and then came back to it; there are others on here with an enormous amount of experience in other trades and some who know more about farming than you'd believe possible - all of which will have influenced voting choice.

Harking back to the subject of business interests, a subject in its own right - short term farming will be uncertain, middle term probably hard, long term probably better. This is both worrying and reassuring.

Your q's..

1. I'd prefer free trade however, the EU has an appalling record of doing anything above snail's pace, so WTO seems most likely in the foreseeable future, which won't be so bad.

2. Yes, free trade.

3. I don't claim sub's and think they should be scrapped. You should have asked if I trusted the Government to match sub's, yes, but only until 2020. After that we shall be 'guided' via environmental incentives.

4. Yes, very, because: 1) we couldn't be sovereign while EU treaties, Commission Directives, Commission Regulations and ECJ judgements took precedence over our own law; 2) immigration numbers / nature had and are changing too much of this country; 3) the EU was stifling our national character and potential.

5. Very, because I'll change what I do to fit the available / potential markets.

I think that your voting Remain because of Farage was as daft as someone voting Leave because of Cameron being a git. However, your fear of the 'unknown' was rational and had been cultured and preyed upon by said Cameron and his 'project fear' operation. Farming isn't really a major British concern, we form a rather small part of the economy but... we do have a place in the national psyche, and we do shape the national landscape, literally.

I'll be interested to read your conclusions at the end.

 

[Exfarmer]

As an Ex farmer , retired 8 years, I am not really qualified to join the conversation. I did not feel that strongly, but voted remain as I felt it was a better option than leaving, it certainly would have been better for my children in my and their opnion, but they again are not farmers.
I still converse with a lot of farmers off the forum and they probably voted 60/40 in favour of leaving.
I believe the bulk of those leaving , think that with a cessation of subsidies, which most seem to think inevitable, there will be a relaxation of the tight jacket of rules and regulations, which they believe has been imposed by the Brussel's burocracy. This certainly happened in New Zealand when subsidies were removed, but I am far less certain this may happen here.
I think there is also a strong feeling, as in the rest of the country of a protest vote against the metropolitan elite.

 

[czechmate]

As an Ex farmer , retired 8 years, I am not really qualified to join the conversation. I did not feel that strongly, but voted remain as I felt it was a better option than leaving, it certainly would have been better for my children in my and their opnion, but they again are not farmers.
I still converse with a lot of farmers off the forum and they probably voted 60/40 in favour of leaving.
I believe the bulk of those leaving , think that with a cessation of subsidies, which most seem to think inevitable, there will be a relaxation of the tight jacket of rules and regulations, which they believe has been imposed by the Brussel's burocracy. This certainly happened in New Zealand when subsidies were removed, but I am far less certain this may happen here.
I think there is also a strong feeling, as in the rest of the country of a protest vote against the metropolitan elite.

I went to your sale Steve, doesn't seem 8 years ago

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I think there is also a strong feeling, as in the rest of the country of a protest vote against the metropolitan elite.

No it wasn't.
This has been a popular theory with hindsight.
It is the metropolitan lifestyle that enjoys all the benefits of being within the EU with service jobs, weekends away in EU cities, eastern european cleaners etc.
Elsewhere, people see the problems and unfairness that being a member of the EU brings.
I was appalled in the immediate aftermath of the referendum to hear the much cited suggestion that the old had ruined it for the young when anyone giving it due consideration would see that the old were voting leave for short term pain for long term gain [ to benefit the next generation ] while the young were only interested in their immediate future. { excuse the over generalisation }.

The referendum identified a problem, it didn't create it.

 

[Exfarmer]

I went to your sale Steve, doesn't seem 8 years ago

It's even worse, just realised that it was actually 9 years ago!

 

[czechmate]

No it wasn't.
This has been a popular theory with hindsight.
It is the metropolitan lifestyle that enjoys all the benefits of being within the EU with service jobs, weekends away in EU cities, eastern european cleaners etc.
Elsewhere, people see the problems and unfairness that being a member of the EU brings.
I was appalled in the immediate aftermath of the referendum to hear the much cited suggestion that the old had ruined it for the young when anyone giving it due consideration would see that the old were voting leave for short term pain for long term gain [ to benefit the next generation ] while the young were only interested in their immediate future. { excuse the over generalisation }.

The referendum identified a problem, it didn't create it.

The way I read the op, she is asking for people's opinions. One of the most distasteful (there are many) aspects of the very narrow win is the apparent opinion of bexiturs (brexiters sounds far too French, courageous and glamorous for such folk) that those who voted to remain within the EU are no longer entitled to state their opinion (or probably have an opinion at all)

 

[Henarar]

One of the most distasteful

Another is the view held by some that wanted to remain in the EU that those that voted to leave are racist

 

[Jackov Altraids]

The way I read the op, she is asking for people's opinions. One of the most distasteful (there are many) aspects of the very narrow win is the apparent opinion of bexiturs (brexiters sounds far too French, courageous and glamorous for such folk) that those who voted to remain within the EU are no longer entitled to state their opinion (or probably have an opinion at all)

You may be right but you certainly demonstrated perfectly how most 'remainers' have an inability to comment without being insulting.

 

[Muck Spreader]

No it wasn't.
This has been a popular theory with hindsight.
It is the metropolitan lifestyle that enjoys all the benefits of being within the EU with service jobs, weekends away in EU cities, eastern european cleaners etc.
Elsewhere, people see the problems and unfairness that being a member of the EU brings.
I was appalled in the immediate aftermath of the referendum to hear the much cited suggestion that the old had ruined it for the young when anyone giving it due consideration would see that the old were voting leave for short term pain for long term gain [ to benefit the next generation ] while the young were only interested in their immediate future. { excuse the over generalisation }.

The referendum identified a problem, it didn't create it.

My kids and their friends certainly see it as the old gits trying to ruin their lives, plus pricing them out of housing, expecting them to fund lavish pensions, whilst being told they may well be expected to work until they are eighty. No wonder they keep taking about compulsory euthanasia.

 

[Old McDonald]

No wonder they keep taking about compulsory euthanasia

Do they? If so, what is your response? Are you in France in perpetuity, or just passing through?

I voted out because I was thinking of the future for my grandchildren. I had a wonderful childhood and teenage years. I thought they deserved the same, and the best way to achieve that was to rid them of the shackles that the (now) EU had applied to the UK for 40 years.

Obviously you, and some others, will disagree with that view. Your prerogative.

 

[czechmate]

Do they? If so, what is your response? Are you in France in perpetuity, or just passing through?

I voted out because I was thinking of the future for my grandchildren. I had a wonderful childhood and teenage years. I thought they deserved the same, and the best way to achieve that was to rid them of the shackles that the (now) EU had applied to the UK for 40 years.

Obviously you, and some others, will disagree with that view. Your prerogative.

I think you have written that your son voted to remain?
So you voted for his benefit against his beliefs? So you know what is better for him than he does for himself?

 

[caveman]

My kids and their friends certainly see it as the old gits trying to ruin their lives, plus pricing them out of housing, expecting them to fund lavish pensions, whilst being told they may well be expected to work until they are eighty. No wonder they keep taking about compulsory euthanasia.

The truth is that many of these liberal leftie soft spoilt impatient young things will eventually inherit wealth from their parents/grandparents or whatever that would of been way beyond the wildest dreams of many of said parents/grandparents

 

[Old McDonald]

I think you have written that your son voted to remain?
So you voted for his benefit against his beliefs? So you know what is better for him than he does for himself?

He did vote Remain. A good memory.

I said I voted for his children - my grandchildren.

He voted for the short term. His contract with the Jodrell Bank Team expires on 31st March and he had been persuaded that a Leave vote would mean a reduction in funding. As you probably know, almost all the administrative scientific bods were saying that, and persuaded many more that it would be so. Lo and behold, he has been offered a new contract starting on 1st April because the funding did not stop.

Yes, I do know better than he does about some things. He knows better than me about some things too. None of us can know everything.

From your posts, I am sure that you also know that on some things you know better than your children. Or do you think they know better than you about everything?

 

[czechmate]

He did vote Remain. A good memory.

I said I voted for his children - my grandchildren.

He voted for the short term. His contract with the Jodrell Bank Team expires on 31st March and he had been persuaded that a Leave vote would mean a reduction in funding. As you probably know, almost all the administrative scientific bods were saying that, and persuaded many more that it would be so. Lo and behold, he has been offered a new contract starting on 1st April because the funding did not stop.

Yes, I do know better than he does about some things. He knows better than me about some things too. None of us can know everything.

From your posts, I am sure that you also know that on some things you know better than your children. Or do you think they know better than you about everything?

That's good news for his job

 

[czechmate]

From your posts, I am sure that you also know that on some things you know better than your children. Or do you think they know better than you about everything?

I have just been pondering this point over the week end.
I can't think I ever made a post that implied I knew more about anything than my kids. As far as the referendum was concerned we were all in agreement any way.
With regard to me ever suggesting I know better than my daughter about what is best for her kids , well all I can say is, your son must be a lot less fierce than my daughter

 

[Old McDonald]

@czechmate, I do not remember a post implying you knew more than your kids either. I deduced from some very good opinions you have conveyed to us (obviously we have also disagreed more than slightly on occasions) plus having more experience of many things of course, that you do know more about some things, even if you did not say so. I think I might be reluctant to tell a daughter too, but I do not have one.

I recall my father giving me a smart tap along the side of the head with a fencing post when we were doing a job on my farm, because I was insisting on doing it my way and not his. He did know better and it was a good way to convince me to think about it before commencing.

 

[czechmate]

@czechmate, I do not remember a post implying you knew more than your kids either. I deduced from some very good opinions you have conveyed to us (obviously we have also disagreed more than slightly on occasions) plus having more experience of many things of course, that you do know more about some things, even if you did not say so. I think I might be reluctant to tell a daughter too, but I do not have one.

I recall my father giving me a smart tap along the side of the head with a fencing post when we were doing a job on my farm, because I was insisting on doing it my way and not his. He did know better and it was a good way to convince me to think about it before commencing.

Ah fathers...

Actually, my big regret is that mine never saw where we are. He would love everything about it, other than being too far from the coast, my mum thinks he would of admitted to liking it here, I am not so sure. He hated the French, he hated France (although he never went there), along with Yorkshire (or northerners generally), in fact anyone that wasn't from London or Norfolk or at least lived for sailing. Having said all that I would of just loved to of had the chance to show him around