britannia rules the waves

[Qman]

Sher it was the Russians who did the fighting and the dying, the western allies turned up for tea n medals before stalin decided he’d fancy a French riviera holiday camp. After the Rn completed it’s primary task of bailing out the army when they bit off more than they could chew.

Go to Normandy and see the American and British war cemeteries before you spout such crap.

 

[SillyPhily]

Go to Normandy and see the American and British war cemeteries before you spout such crap.

Why? Germany were already defeated when they failed to get to Moscow and the Caspian oil fields on the first go. After that it was just a case of sorting out how many peasants stalin decided he could kill before a peace treaty was done.

 

[Danllan]

Sher it was the Russians who did the fighting and the dying, the western allies turned up for tea n medals before stalin decided he’d fancy a French riviera holiday camp. After the Rn completed it’s primary task of bailing out the army when they bit off more than they could chew.

You'd have had fun trying to explain that to one of my uncles who got a German bayonet in his gut while laying on a stretcher in Crete. Or to another who flew from Dunkirk, through the Battle of Britain and briefly in Malta. Or a third who managed to get the watch from what was left of his oldest friend's arm, so that he could return it to the family after they got blown up on leave.

You couldn't have had a go at explaining to others in the family, including two from the ROI, because they were killed fighting the Germans - but I'm sure they would have approved your making the most of your freedom to express yourself, regardless of how poor its taste. After all, that is in fair part what they fought and died for.

I've spoken with men who served on all fronts, and not one mentioned the tea and medals you refer to, but that was probably just them hiding their errant cowardice etc.. The Russians did a lot of fighting, no error; but it must be remembered that they only started after they split with Germany and that their appalling tactics, strategy and supply chain were just as much a part of their enormous casualty figures as German efficiency and barbarity.

Over the years, while visiting family and friends in the ROI, I've also met a fair number of men who served in the British and Imperial forces during WW2. Oddly, not one of them was ashamed for having fought and some said that their friends and family had, afterwards, wished that they had done so too. They didn't mention the tea and medals either.

 

[Danllan]

The sizing of the Iranian tanker by UK forces has nothing to do with Syria and everything to do with US pressure on the EU to abandon Obarma's nuclear deal with Tehran and take a more aggressive stance against the regime. The Trump has also issued veiled threats against other countries who are taking Iranian oil, notably India, China, Japan, South Korea, Italy and Turkey. The current evidence points to the White house first asking the Spanish government to enact the the EU policy on Syria, when this was declined they approached the government in Gibraltar who agreed, they then asked the RN for help to apprehend the tanker.

Err... there was an EC Regulation requiring it. Undoubtedly the US was happy to see it done, but the legal requirement for doing so came from the UK's EU membership.

 

[SillyPhily]

You'd have had fun trying to explain that to one of my uncles who got a German bayonet in his gut while laying on a stretcher in Crete. Or to another who flew from Dunkirk, through the Battle of Britain and briefly in Malta. Or a third who managed to get the watch from what was left of his oldest friend's arm, so that he could return it to the family after they got blown up on leave.

You couldn't have had a go at explaining to others in the family, including two from the ROI, because they were killed fighting the Germans - but I'm sure they would have approved your making the most of your freedom to express yourself, regardless of how poor its taste. After all, that is in fair part what they fought and died for.

I've spoken with men who served on all fronts, and not one mentioned the tea and medals you refer to, but that was probably just them hiding their errant cowardice etc.. The Russians did a lot of fighting, no error; but it must be remembered that they only started after they split with Germany and that their appalling tactics, strategy and supply chain were just as much a part of their enormous casualty figures as German efficiency and barbarity.

Over the years, while visiting family and friends in the ROI, I've also met a fair number of men who served in the British and Imperial forces during WW2. Oddly, not one of them was ashamed for having fought and some said that their friends and family had, afterwards, wished that they had done so too. They didn't mention the tea and medals either.

Try tell the men of the time they should go fight for the nation that held them under the jack boot of oppression of British farces in their youth and you can have that one. My family lost members because a black and tan patrol decided a group of locals trying to fix a cart that lost it's wheel in a stream crossing were shifty enough and disobeying rules on congregating to want putting against a wall.
Though i suspect your family had differing allegiances to the generic rural dweller at the time in Ireland.

 

[Danllan]

Try tell the men of the time they should go fight for the nation that held them under the jack boot of oppression of British farces in their youth and you can have that one. My family lost members because a black and tan patrol decided a group of locals trying to fix a cart that lost it's wheel in a stream crossing were shifty enough and disobeying rules on congregating to want putting against a wall.
Though i suspect your family had differing allegiances to the generic rural dweller at the time in Ireland.

Wrong. My family members who died had had a father and uncle in the IRA - original version. I've spoken with several men, all long dead now I guess, who were in the IRA during the fight for independence who and also fought in the British Army against Germany in WW2 and saw no contradiction at all in throwing off British 'oppression' and then fighting with us against fascism. Make of them what you will.

We British never wore jackboots, that's the Germans, and associating the actions of the Black and Tans with the British Forces as a whole is as stupid as saying all Republicans think random bombing is a good thing.

 

[czechmate]

It never ceases to amaze me just how divisive this Brexit malarkey has made The British isles

 

[SillyPhily]

Wrong. My family members who died had had a father and uncle in the IRA - original version. I've spoken with several men, all long dead now I guess, who were in the IRA during the fight for independence who and also fought in the British Army against Germany in WW2 and saw no contradiction at all in throwing off British 'oppression' and then fighting with us against fascism. Make of them what you will.

We British never wore jackboots, that's the Germans, and associating the actions of the Black and Tans with the British Forces as a whole is as stupid as saying all Republicans think random bombing is a good thing.

Strange all these folks you definitely knew, must have been a real concentrated small group of people to have gone to war and have been in the original Ra' because most people of the time most certainly had no inclination to go fight for the British. It's not something many people fondly tell stories of like you seem to imagine happens. Most locals only got involved with the original Ra' due to threat of conscription for ww1 and after the treatment of the 1916 ring leaders.
Are you happy to have had members of your family to have engauged in the war of independence, your comments certainly give the impression it was a bad thing.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Err... there was an EC Regulation requiring it. Undoubtedly the US was happy to see it done, but the legal requirement for doing so came from the UK's EU membership.

I don't dispute that. But the fact that the EU regulation has been in force for almost a decade with little or no activity against Iranian tankers delivering up to 150,000 barrel per day is then suddenly implemented with no comment of confirmation from the EU. Plus we can assume no useful outcome to the White house if a US warship had apprehended the tanker.

 

[Danllan]

Strange all these folks you definitely knew, must have been a real concentrated small group of people to have gone to war and have been in the original Ra' because most people of the time most certainly had no inclination to go fight for the British. It's not something many people fondly tell stories of like you seem to imagine happens. Most locals only got involved with the original Ra' due to threat of conscription for ww1 and after the treatment of the 1916 ring leaders.
Are you happy to have had members of your family to have engauged in the war of independence, your comments certainly give the impression it was a bad thing.

Not strange, I have Irish family, mainly from the South, with a tradition of service in the British Army going back centuries. But, like me now, they were then republicans - me with a small r and them with a large R. I do regret that the ROI split from the UK, but I think that it was understandable and inevitable following many appalling political decisions.

I have no feeling either way about family having served on both sides during the war in Ireland, even though I spoke with some involved when I was a young man, it just feels too long ago now to get excited about.

But, for the record, I'll write now what I've written before on here and elsewhere: I would have been quite happy to see the UK break up and, with states from Canada, Australia etc. form a greater ex-imperial union. I would not have cared a toss if the capital was in Dublin, Calgary, Sydney or Manchester. I'm of the Anglo-Celtic melting pot and I have far more in common with the average bloke walking down the street in Dublin, Wellington, Brisbane or Vancouver than I have with any in Berlin, Paris or Rome.

I don't dispute that. But the fact that the EU regulation has been in force for almost a decade with little or no activity against Iranian tankers delivering up to 150,000 barrel per day is then suddenly implemented with no comment of confirmation from the EU. Plus we can assume no useful outcome to the White house if a US warship had apprehended the tanker.

Assume away... just heard the former EU foreign policy chief saying it was sanctions-based.

 

[Muck Spreader]

Not strange, I have Irish family, mainly from the South, with a tradition of service in the British Army going back centuries. But, like me now, they were then republicans - me with a small r and them with a large R. I do regret that the ROI split from the UK, but I think that it was understandable and inevitable following many appalling political decisions.

I have no feeling either way about family having served on both sides during the war in Ireland, even though I spoke with some involved when I was a young man, it just feels too long ago now to get excited about.

But, for the record, I'll write now what I've written before on here and elsewhere: I would have been quite happy to see the UK break up and, with states from Canada, Australia etc. form a greater ex-imperial union. I would not have cared a toss if the capital was in Dublin, Calgary, Sydney or Manchester. I'm of the Anglo-Celtic melting pot and I have far more in common with the average bloke walking down the street in Dublin, Wellington, Brisbane or Vancouver than I have with any in Berlin, Paris or Rome.



Assume away... just heard the former EU foreign policy chief saying it was sanctions-based.

You seriously think Gibraltar has suddenly decided to flex it's muscles in an international conflict. This was a White House opportunity to get someone else involved. Interestingly they have had Chinese tankers sailing past US warships loaded with Iranian crude for months and have done nothing themselves. The tanker impounded in Gibraltar by the way, looks like it is Russian owned (Titan Shipping) so could get interesting from that point as well.

 

[nivilla1982]

Apparently the UK government turned down an American offer for a joint security operation in the area, supposedly because May and Hunt did not want to look like siding with Trump(The offer was made before the weekends events and when the UK government knew of heightened risks to shipping in the area.

 

[Danllan]

You seriously think Gibraltar has suddenly decided to flex it's muscles in an international conflict. This was a White House opportunity to get someone else involved. Interestingly they have had Chinese tankers sailing past US warships loaded with Iranian crude for months and have done nothing themselves. The tanker impounded in Gibraltar by the way, looks like it is Russian owned (Titan Shipping) so could get interesting from that point as well.

I am stating as a simple fact that the EC / EU initiated this, and you haven't written anything to gainsay that.

Apparently the UK government turned down an American offer for a joint security operation in the area, supposedly because May and Hunt did not want to look like siding with Trump(The offer was made before the weekends events and when the UK government knew of heightened risks to shipping in the area.

Good thing they've put their pride before the safety of our shipping and crews...

 

[glasshouse]

The likes of Portugal did it in WW2...

That was rather different war
A nuclear winter will cover everyone.
Will make climate change look like Sunday school picnic

 

[glasshouse]

the swiss watched it from center of pitch

They bankrolled the whole thing

 

[Henarar]

They bankrolled the whole thing

did they make much out of it ?

 

[czechmate]

did they make much out of it ?

Selling knives like hot cakes

 

[manhill]

What I don't understand about Westminster is we have 100's if not 1000's of people all full of bravado .. but have spent decades removing the stick AND inflitrating what stick we do have with those with a political agenda AGAINST the traditional role of the armed forces - Trump's latest "Racist" comment is exactly in this vain.

The UK government has simply got exactly what it has created.

Further than this I find the hypocrasy that we will have "Global Britain" post Brexit.

We won't and we cannot .. simply because the UK government has destroyed everything it touches. To even attempt to have "Global Britain" will mean a total destruction of what is left AND made to look a complete set of idiots by not having the power or resources to actually DO anything against our adversaries.


Until we have a united effort by the whole of the country pushing the UK forward .. rather than MORONS like Rory Stewart spending tax payers money on vanity projects .. this country will not succeed.

And by success I mean a good standard of living for most normal people and criminal elements surpressed.

There you go again, picking on the lags. Next you'll be wanting them to buy licences for their drones.

 

[Danllan]

Selling knives like hot cakes

Yeah, but you don't see many buying cuckoo clocks anymore.

 

[czechmate]

Yeah, but you don't see many buying cuckoo clocks anymore.

Oh, I thought there were 17 odd million in the uk going cuckoo