British Breeds(of cattle) more suitable for commercial herds after B####t

Well I think we're rather spray drifting away from what the OP was asking now.

Perhaps more pertinent question to ask is would our current natives be wanted by the rest of the world?
Yes and I have been responsible for much of that drift OT :oops:.

Back on topic, shall we let @Wolds Beef have the floor and give us a quick run down of how the Lincoln Reds fit into his operation? They do seem to be a breed that everyone likes, if they've had them. What is the relationship, if any, with the Red Poll? Seen a few of them over the years and liked them.
 

beefandsleep

Member
Location
Staffordshire
I would say Angus and Hereford with 50% or more US blood would suit the job the OP imagines with the Angus having the edge in terms of performance, availability of top genetics and the marketing premium behind it.
 

tinsheet

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Somerset
When? When did we have a world leading product? Certainly not in my lifetime. Nor anyone's still alive to be posting on this forum I'd wager.

By the 50's and 60's British breeders had rendered the native breeds so hopelessly, ridiculously unfunctional for purpose that we had to turn to the Continent to save us.

Throughout time, pedigree breeders have always been the same.
The black baldie, most widely used suckler cow in the world.!
Fairly world leading in my eyes, all through British natives.(y)
 

Cowgirl

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ayrshire
You would expect that with any population of livestock in which genetic improvement was effectively halted 70 plus years ago. Original population Angus are basically the belt buckle cattle bred to supply bulls to Argentina in the days when they shipped their beef back to Europe and the carcasses needed to be small enough to hang between the decks of the ships. They got left behind as they had been bred into a dead end.
Absolutely not true! Have you seen any Native Angus recently? Have you seen any OP Traditional Herefords lately?
I think you would be surprised! There are very few of them left though. What do you think the breeders have been doing in the last 70 years?
 

Cowgirl

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ayrshire
I would say Angus and Hereford with 50% or more US blood would suit the job the OP imagines with the Angus having the edge in terms of performance, availability of top genetics and the marketing premium behind it.
And where are you going to find animals with 50% US blood? Unless you mean crossbreds. The modern Hereford and Angus are almost 100% US genetics, apart from the rare breeds, even the ones from Australia and New Zealand. All modern Herefords have significant continental infusion, and the Angus probably too. There may be some lovely OP Herefords lurking in the hills of Uruguay, Argentina and Patagonia or other far flung places but that's about it. The Traditional Hereford Breeders' Club has developed a DNA test to track them down - watch this space!
 
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Cowgirl

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ayrshire
I would guess if they took today's UK Hereford and AA to NZ they would have their work cut out, and might think twice about that choice.
I agree about the modern ones, but the Americans, South Americans and Australians are buying UK Native Angus embryos and semen, and enquiries come in frequently for OP Hereford semen. Why might that be? Because they are looking for that hardiness and foraging ability that the breeds were famous for. Just because a breed is not fashionable or in favour in this country does not mean that it cannot be useful in other countries and different conditions.
As to the OP's question, I think the native breeds are set for a comeback in UK, but we shall see - we will still breed them for the overseas market even if they don't.
 

tinsheet

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Somerset
I agree about the modern ones, but the Americans, South Americans and Australians are buying UK Native Angus embryos and semen, and enquiries come in frequently for OP Hereford semen. Why might that be? Because they are looking for that hardiness and foraging ability that the breeds were famous for. Just because a breed is not fashionable or in favour in this country does not mean that it cannot be useful in other countries and different conditions.
As to the OP's question, I think the native breeds are set for a comeback in UK, but we shall see - we will still breed them for the overseas market even if they don't.
My Godfather is exporting Angus and Hereford semen to South America, seems they can't get enough, he says it won't last long though as they are setting up their own bull studs, using Angus and Herefords,
Lots of huge units using our natives as terminal sires on Nelores, the off-spring grow really well of the poor forage they produce.
Easy calving high growth rates with soft flesh is what they require, the numbers of cattle over there is huge, make us (The British isles) look pretty insignificant on the world scene. If the South Americans get their beef over. here look out:eek:.
 

Frank-the-Wool

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
What goes around comes around!
I remember being in the hard country of Western Australia in early 1970's and working on a farm which had the biggest Black cattle I had ever seen.
Always remember being thought of as a bit of a fool when I asked what breed they were and told they were AA's. The semen had been imported from Canada, but they were light years away from what I knew of the Breed.
This was as hard a country as you find anywhere in the world to keep cattle yet they did extremely well.

I was recently in the Czech Republic on a large extensive farm which kept Romney sheep and Angus cattle. It was poor rolling hill country yet the cattle looked marvellous, the Bull was from the Stovold family and although several years old was still performing and a great advert for the breed. The cows stay out all the year and even when temperatures are below -10'C do very well.
The other native cattle already referred to by woolly are of course the Sussex which also have been adapted to live in a large geographical range. They can put up with high and low temperatures and when sent to South Africa it was important they had big eye lashes to keep out the sun!
Sussex have had an injection of Limousin which has done them no harm and does allow them to finish more quickly.

I am sure all our native breeds have a great future.
 
I agree about the modern ones, but the Americans, South Americans and Australians are buying UK Native Angus embryos and semen, and enquiries come in frequently for OP Hereford semen. Why might that be? Because they are looking for that hardiness and foraging ability that the breeds were famous for. Just because a breed is not fashionable or in favour in this country does not mean that it cannot be useful in other countries and different conditions.
As to the OP's question, I think the native breeds are set for a comeback in UK, but we shall see - we will still breed them for the overseas market even if they don't.
I was surprise to see that there are only 5 million Hereford cattle in the world, I assumed there would be more.
I can't pinpoint a number for AA.
 

Whitepeak

Member
Livestock Farmer
Its interesting that people keep banding about a few different native breed suggestions on here as the possible future. Yet once you get more than a couple of miles from their heartland you struggle to see them- we're only a couple of hrs drive from Lincolnshire and you hardly ever see a Lincoln Red in our local market, and you see even less Sussex, Devons, Welsh Blacks, Red Polls, Galloways etc.
 

Cowgirl

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ayrshire
I was surprise to see that there are only 5 million Hereford cattle in the world, I assumed there would be more.
I can't pinpoint a number for AA.
Five million pedigree (ie registered). I would assume that most commercial Herefords are not registered.
 

Cowgirl

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ayrshire
926993F8-C361-497E-8747-DE7F79A94EF0.jpeg
Like these being gathered by helicopter on an Alaskan island.
 

Cowgirl

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ayrshire
Its interesting that people keep banding about a few different native breed suggestions on here as the possible future. Yet once you get more than a couple of miles from their heartland you struggle to see them- we're only a couple of hrs drive from Lincolnshire and you hardly ever see a Lincoln Red in our local market, and you see even less Sussex, Devons, Welsh Blacks, Red Polls, Galloways etc.
Surely that is because most breeds have their own sales and are not taken to local markets?
 
Five million pedigree (ie registered). I would assume that most commercial Herefords are not registered.
I'd guess you're correct, I wouldn't think that commercials would be included.
As far as I'm aware there are over 40 million Simmentals (beef and dairy), they are often referred to as the worlds 2nd most popular breed, but I've never found out which is the most popular.
I think it's maybe Zebu?

Maybe a Zebu x SIM x Her x AA is the future :)
 
And where are you going to find animals with 50% US blood? Unless you mean crossbreds. The modern Hereford and Angus are almost 100% US genetics, apart from the rare breeds, even the ones from Australia and New Zealand. All modern Herefords have significant continental infusion, and the Angus probably too. There may be some lovely OP Herefords lurking in the hills of Uruguay, Argentina and Patagonia or other far flung places but that's about it. The Traditional Hereford Breeders' Club has developed a DNA test to track them down - watch this space!


I won't speak for other countries, but most of NZ Angus genetics have some US influence. However this is generally restricted to no more than 50% as NZ's use is mainly maternal, need for hardiness while restricting adult size. Too much US blood reduces these vital traits essential for NZ's hill based breeding herds.
There are several Angus lines totally free from US influence. The most noticeable is the Wai Group Angus http://anguswaigroup.co.nz/ which is a group breeding scheme using intensive selection based on pure Angus genetics that had been in NZ for around 100 years prior to their efforts. They have a reputation for being very good cows on hard hill country.
Herefords had a bad rap for cancer eye in NZ. Today's NZ Herefords have either a dark patch around each eye, or they have dark pigmented eyelids. Some talk of Simental blood there, but I remember breeders tackling this problem before the introduction of continental breeds to NZ.
I doubt if any herds remain that resemble the old Aberdeen Angus or Herefords imported over the years prior to US semen imports and the improved (for modern NZ farming requirements) strains.

South Devons and Red Devons are present in NZ, but only for terminal use.
Highland cattle and Belted Galloways are popular on lifestyle blocks.
Belties and Murray Greys are preferred as a terminal by dairy farmers with Jersey and Kiwi Cross first calvers.
Welsh Blacks are about in very small numbers, also regarded as very hardy.
 

tinsheet

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Somerset
How many Black Baldy cows are there worldwide?
Millions, don't have a number without trawling the web for it .;).
But prevalent in US, South America, Australia, NZ.
All I'm saying/doing is trying to big up a great product we as a nation have produced, yet we persistently knock them back, whilst beef producers on a world stage are taking them forward!
And we push our European neighbours breeds over here, all seems a bit ironic,
Don't get me wrong I'm not anti continental cattle, used to run blonde bulls for several years, still got one or two cows left, but now I run Angus and Hereford in an effort to improve profit!(y).
 
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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

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